WEBVTT
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Jim Gass: Testing mic levels.
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Jim Gass: Testing mic levels.
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Rosalind Norman: Okay hi.
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Jim Gass: Dr. Roz, how's it going this morning,
Rosalind Norman: Let me switch on my camera, let's see how it look, if not,
then, you know. Okay, here we go.5
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Jim Gass: Nice.
Rosalind Norman: I'm at my computer.
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Rosalind Norman: Okay, is that okay?
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Jim Gass: yep that'll do just fine.
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Rosalind Norman: Okay.
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Rosalind Norman: Well, hi!
Jim Gass: How you doing this morning?
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Rosalind Norman: So let me know when you're ready to start and good afternoon to you!
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Jim Gass: Good afternoon to you, too, can you hear me okay?
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Rosalind Norman: Yes, I can hear you fine.
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Rosalind Norman: Can you hear me OK.
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Jim Gass: I can.
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Rosalind Norman:Okay, good.
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Jim Gass: These are a pretty old pair of earphones here with the microphone kind of,
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Jim Gass: Where I gotta at least hold it to my mouth, but um.
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Jim Gass: So uh let me add, you as a co host real quick like we were talking about.
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Rosalind Norman: showing the, uh, video, because I do have it ready.
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Jim Gass: Right, right... more... make cohost...
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Jim Gass: Yes.
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Jim Gass: Okay, I think, if you want to share that, that should probably work.
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Rosalind Norman: Okay, so like saying you want me to go ahead and get started,
are you, you know, are you ready to start recording let me know anything I can you know go ahead and start the video.24
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Jim Gass: um yeah i'm recording already so i'm.
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Jim Gass: ready whenever you are.
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Rosalind Norman: Okay, well then, thank you very much, gentlemen go ahead and
start the video, I think I shared with you, and one of the emails that should be about a 12 minute, approximately 12 minutes.27
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Rosalind Norman: That was prepared by some students of mine who served as my
interns back in 1999. It's called Community Pride, so let me go ahead and share the screen sit back and get that up, it is here, and share. 00:02:0028
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Rosalind Norman: Let's see, we can go ahead and get started Okay, let me know if
the volume is not high enough, okay?29
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Jim Gass: Of course.
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Rosalind Norman:
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Rosalind Norman: "Vashon High School gives me a very warm feeling.
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Rosalind Norman: It makes me think back when I attended Vashon High School I
came here as a freshman in June of 1946. The name, Vashon, itself, you know is named after two Black attorneys, George and John D. Vashon, uh33
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Rosalind Norman: in itself is inspiring to me so when I think of it, it brings
that level of inspiration and feelings of connection and, it's home. It was a34
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Rosalind Norman: exciting time.
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Rosalind Norman: We were a close-knit community.
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Rosalind Norman: Family oriented and
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Rosalind Norman: A wonderful atmosphere, it was just a great school to attend.
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Rosalind Norman: And Vashon gave us an outlook on how to build the future. This
00:03:00building that is here is not the original Vashon and this community that it sits in is not the original community that Vashon39
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Rosalind Norman: sat in and we have to know a little bit of- of the history,
Vashon originally started in the Mill Creek area.40
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Rosalind Norman: Which is where Harris Stowe is now. Harris Stowe is the
historic Vashon high school, it was the second Black high school west of the Mississippi. At one time all of the Black students in the city of St. Louis went to Sumner41
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Rosalind Norman: people got together and decided that we needed another high
school East of Grand and they built Vashon. In this area, we need something that42
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Rosalind Norman: our youngsters can relate to, something that's going to be
beautiful, attractive. I know the kids that goe to Vashon now, they're going to take more than what they have because they don't really have nothing. You think the neighborhood needs it though? Yeah. They need a new high school? Yeah. Why? Because, you know what I'm saying, educate more people, they can give them jobs 00:04:00and stuff like that,43
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Rosalind Norman: get they GED and stuff like that,
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Rosalind Norman: instead of dropping out. The idea of it is already this
inspiration for the Community, and I think that it can be a- a lynchpin for further development in that area. I want to see...45
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Rosalind Norman: things on the campus, I want to see so many things in Vashon
that I remember when I was attending Vashon, I want to see Vashon reach more out to the Community, get the Community input as to what they want to see in their school.46
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Rosalind Norman: Two years ago the Danforth Foundation Board of Trustees decided
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Rosalind Norman: the foundation should no longer make national grants.
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Rosalind Norman: Its focus should be on the problems of cities, especially St.
Louis. The funds have to be kept in the community, but there49
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Rosalind Norman: has to be people who are who are trained, who care, to take
community wants and to invest it in50
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Rosalind Norman: the next level of development. There has to be a major
enterprise or entity within the Community that people believe in, like a high school. I believe that the school.51
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Rosalind Norman: want parents to have answers to their questions, because they
know that the school cannot be the kind of place, that it needs to be unless there is that partnership between parents and teachers, the parents can't 00:05:0052
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Rosalind Norman: be taking the place of the teachers, neither can the teachers
take the place of the parents. I think that seeing a new growth, to see more action and more activity,53
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Rosalind Norman: To come into the Community is going to be a benefit not only
economically to the Community, but for54
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Rosalind Norman: Self-identification. What I envision for the new Vashon is it
will be the flagship of the St Louis public school system,55
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Rosalind Norman: it's going to be a $35 million project that will resemble a
small college campus with a huge building of about 200,000 square feet to serve as the actual educational facility, it will have a stadium.56
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Rosalind Norman: A basketball, baseball, a swimming pool, tennis courts and all
other recreational facilities that are necessary for a state-of-the-art high school.57
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Rosalind Norman: And in terms of the Jeff Vanderlou neighborhood, the $35
million impact in terms of development that it's going to have is going to totally revitalize that community58
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Rosalind Norman: and make people want to live in the Community, own businesses,
00:06:00and raise a family right there in the Jeff Vanderlou59
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Rosalind Norman: neighborhood. The high school could again be the centerpiece of
a larger development that would address all aspects of the Community, a holistic approach, if you will, where we will be dealing with physical development.60
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Rosalind Norman: rehab, new construction, the employment of the people in the
Community in that process,61
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Rosalind Norman: As well as dealing with social issues and trying to bring
people together to solve their own issues in the Community. What we'd like to let people know is that62
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Rosalind Norman: Vashon being built right now, it's going to be more than just a
high school, you're looking at building the Community surrounding that.63
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Rosalind Norman: they're looking at pouring millions of dollars into, ah,
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Rosalind Norman: the Community, the Jeff Vanderlou area
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Rosalind Norman: to give support.
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Rosalind Norman: Key part of this Community has been the people themselves.
67
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Rosalind Norman: There's strength in numbers, not in money. People say, well
Macler you ain't got no money, I say money ain't nothin' but paper.68
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Rosalind Norman: i'll never forget the days that I first saw Macler Shepard and
I, then talking together with other people in the community wondering what we might do together to build up the community.69
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Rosalind Norman: But I shall never regret that I pledged myself to work with the
project and to continue to work with as many of my resources, both personal and the resources in the church to make the project work.70
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Rosalind Norman: The foundation has been laid in the last 10 years that never
did, I been with the spirit, the spirit today exists, look at the young people today in the neighborhood, look at the young people now with enthusiasm, working 00:07:00together with older people and everybody. This did not exist earlier.71
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Rosalind Norman: And I think the future lies here, yes, in the spirit of this
community and its souls. On this street, James Cool Papa Bell the baseball player lived.72
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Rosalind Norman: We had a tribute to him right here to, like, we had banners on
the posts.73
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Rosalind Norman: And so we need our children to know about all of those things
and to be proud of our neighborhood.74
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Rosalind Norman: Self-respect, a sense of belonging, a sense of identity, a
sense of recognition, all of those things I think will be developed75
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Rosalind Norman: As a result of the construction of Vashon High School and all-
and the ancillary services, supportive services that are necessary for any community to survive. Vashon has such a place in my heart that the mere mention of its name conjures up emotions in me.76
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Rosalind Norman: But what does it mean to me, it was a...
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Rosalind Norman: A nurturing ground for me certainly, and
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Rosalind Norman: it gave us an opportunity in a Black environment to
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Rosalind Norman: really, uh, develop ourselves.
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Rosalind Norman: Ah, Vashon is like, the pillar of the community.
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Rosalind Norman: It's a very good larger institution.
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Rosalind Norman: And Vashon has my heart.
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Rosalind Norman: I think every student should have some memories of their high
school, just like they have memories of their college for those who don't, though, Vashon's a great place to have memories of.84
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Rosalind Norman: The school system is great, and this is just gonna make it even
greater. This is just the start, and00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:42.510
Rosalind Norman: this new campus will be like throwing a rock in a pond, with
the ripples growing and growing, and this will be that86
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Rosalind Norman: rock.
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Rosalind Norman: I'm very very excited about the possibility of us
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Rosalind Norman: coming together, and I hope that people in the neighborhood
will be on fire with the conviction89
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Rosalind Norman: that they have made something happen.
00:09:0090
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Rosalind Norman: Education is our passport to the future, for tomorrow belongs
to the people who prepare for it today.91
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Jim Gass: That was really well put together.
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Rosalind Norman: Isn't it though? You realize, I lost quite a bit in that
transfer from the, uh, videotape even though the transfer may have been, yeah, the videotape or vhs from that time period just to DVD, you know. I hope that didn't interfere too much with you watching it. 00:10:0093
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Rosalind Norman: But thank you.
Jim Gass: No, the quality was pretty pretty great overall, I saw a couple issues
with the subtitles but i'm sure that's you know fairly common occurrence when adding captions like that.94
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Jim Gass: So that's, uh, so that was covering the, uh, development of the
current location of Vashon high school, is that correct?95
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Rosalind Norman: Yes, that's correct.
Jim Gass: And that's the third location, overall, since the school's original
founding, is that also correct?96
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Rosalind Norman: Yes, that's correct because Harris Stowe State.
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Rosalind Norman: University, now because, you know, because of the changeover
and I guess the accreditation of the university, but when it first started out it was Harris Stowe State College and that,98
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Rosalind Norman: where it's located now, is the original site of Vashon High
School. I graduated from Vashon High school once it moved over to Bell Avenue, 00:11:00which was the sight of the Bluemeyer Housing project, which is now the site of the Renaissance, uh,99
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Rosalind Norman: apartment complex and, of course, if you're talking
present-day, we're looking at, where the new Vashon100
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Rosalind Norman: is actually currently located on Cass, okay?
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Jim Gass: That was going to be my next question, so did Harris-Stowe make use of
any buildings that were left over from the original high school that was there, or was that bulldozed and then was Harris-Stowe built from the ground up?102
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Rosalind Norman: Well, according to my understanding from Helen Robinson, who
was, included in the video, she said early on that that was the site, that's where they went to school, remember, she went to school back around, what? 1946?103
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Rosalind Norman: So that would have been before they trans- you know transferred
over to Bell where the high school, um,104
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Rosalind Norman: Where, um
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Rosalind Norman: The Vashon that I graduated from was also became the location
00:12:00for Hadley Technical high school, okay on Bell so yeah, where Harris-Stowe is, the way it looks even in this, uh,106
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Rosalind Norman: even in this video presentation was pretty much the way it
looked according to my understanding when they first started out.107
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Rosalind Norman: Now of course they've been adding, expanding, probably
upgrading around that main building, but the building you saw in the video to my understanding, was the same building that they used, okay.108
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Jim Gass: Yeah that clears it up, it's something we've discussed a lot in our
research, is kind of a tendency in St Louis to, you know,109
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Jim Gass: Either preserve a historic site or completely tear it down and build
something like completely new over, like over what is left, so that's that's great that the original building is still there.110
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Jim Gass: But, based on the credits there, it looked like there's significant
buy-in from the city, uh, and its various departments.111
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Jim Gass: Would you say that came about before or after there was a real push to
00:13:00get a new location for Vashon.112
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Rosalind Norman: You know what? And I want to back up a little bit.
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Jim Gass: Sure, sure.
Rosalind Norman: If at all possible, I want to be sure we're accurate, because I
know it's very important for you as a student114
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Rosalind Norman: To be accurate. In the video we cover some things, I'm going on
my smartphone right now just-115
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Rosalind Norman: because I'm going to look
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Rosalind Norman: to be sure, I'm giving you the accurate information.
Jim Gass: I appreciate
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Jim Gass: that.
Rosalind Norman: Yeah for the Harris-Stowe State...
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Rosalind Norman: Be sure I'm gonna be sure because like Helen said, you know,
there was a site and she actually stood. She was standing, right outside of Harris-Stowe when you know, when she gave her interview.119
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Jim Gass: Right.
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Rosalind Norman:
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Rosalind Norman:
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Rosalind Norman: Okay, and I, and I did find- I went on Google and I went back
and i'm making sure, because the Vashon that I went to on Bell was in there, they show that photograph and...123
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Rosalind Norman: They show the original site for Sumner which pretty much like,
like Sumner stayed like it is, and let me see...maybe I can hold it, but if you don't mind me sharing screenJim Gass: Nope.
Rosalind Norman: just for a moment.
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Jim Gass: Go for it.
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Rosalind Norman: See if I can go to...
126
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Rosalind Norman: Because I found it on Google, just some things that I, OK, can
I click on that?127
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Rosalind Norman: Ok, let me see if I can get to...
128
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Rosalind Norman: Take
129
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Rosalind Norman: Down the desktop and see if I can go there...Well there it
wants to go to the desktop...130
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Rosalind Norman: See what I can get rid of...
00:15:00131
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Rosalind Norman: this. We'll get rid of that...
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Rosalind Norman: I can close this out because I will see if I can find... being...
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Rosalind Norman: See if I can go to...
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Rosalind Norman:
135
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Rosalind Norman: Regional...high school...sure hope this works
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Rosalind Norman: Images folder wallet.
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Rosalind Norman: Okay
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Jim Gass: All I can really see as far as your screen goes is still your- your
files here from your desktop.139
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Rosalind Norman: Go back and re-share...
Jim Gass: Okay.
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Rosalind Norman: here.
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Rosalind Norman:
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Rosalind Norman: Now, can you see this screen, where it says,
00:16:00143
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Rosalind Norman: colocation?
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Jim Gass: Yes, yes I can, at Search Data Center?
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Rosalind Norman: Okay, so now let me go back to where I was, try to star again.
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Rosalind Norman:
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Rosalind Norman: see me scrolling?
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Jim Gass: I can.
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Rosalind Norman: What's this...Norton. I need to come out of Norton and
150
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Rosalind Norman: Go back to Google, Google has better images I think people,is
it going to let me go back to Google.151
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Rosalind Norman: Okay, can you see the screen still?
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Jim Gass: I can. Yep.
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Rosalind Norman:
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Rosalind Norman: Google, and sometimes it depends on you know how we come in,
since I have a security, uh special security for a155
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Rosalind Norman: Secure online source, sometimes creates a challenge.
156
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Rosalind Norman: I hope I don't take you off the amount of time you alotted for this.
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Jim Gass: No, I made sure, uh it ran till two just to be on the safe side.
That's- that's uh- we needed less than that in our previous two interviews but felt better about just having that alotted.158
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Rosalind Norman: Ok here it is, confirmation at 3026 Laclede Avenue. That's
exactly where Harris-Stowe State University is now. It says on September the sixth.159
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Rosalind Norman: 1927, okay.
160
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Rosalind Norman: It was budgeted, you can see here, at like 1,180,790 at the
00:17:00time, okay.161
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Rosalind Norman: So now let's see if I can get to images...
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Rosalind Norman: Okay, and this is the Vashon I went to, right here, the second
one, yes, that's the way it looked on Bell, it's been torn down, okay.163
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Rosalind Norman: And you're right, they tore it down and just up from there
right off the corner of Grand and Bell they built the Clyde C. Miller academy. Okay, which is the school I work with now, believe it or not, with Gateway GIS.164
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Rosalind Norman: and let's see if we can so you can see the stages, they were
tearing it down.165
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Rosalind Norman: Okay, let me see, let me go back to- here it is.
166
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Rosalind Norman: Um, St Louis. This would be Harris-Stowe right here and that
was the site of, um167
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Rosalind Norman: Vashon.
Jim Gass: Right.
Rosalind Norman: The original site. Over here would probably be the site of
Sumner, okay? Just so you know how they look. Okay so basically there's been you know very little change, if that helps you? Again here's Sumner, you know pretty 00:18:00much it looks now in black and white is Sumner so.168
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Jim Gass: I guess i'm
169
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Rosalind Norman: just saying to you if you were to look at this.
170
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Rosalind Norman: This is supposed to be where the new Vashon, I mean the new
Vashon,the one that is located on Cass.171
00:28:16.560 --> 00:28:26.610
Rosalind Norman: So I just wanted to be sure that I was giving you accurate
information, even though you know I had it in the video tape where Helen was standing in front of school, she said, this is where we went to school, you know, open around 1927 and she was there in 1946.172
00:28:29.100 --> 00:28:29.850
OK so, I'll stop sharing.
173
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Rosalind Norman: i'll try and go back. Okay! So um I just want to be sure I was
174
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Jim Gass: Yeah.
175
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Rosalind Norman: accurate answer your question about that original site. Now,
176
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Rosalind Norman: The other part of your question, if you could
177
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Please repeat for me?
178
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Jim Gass: Um, yeah I was asking how much-
179
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Jim Gass: How much the push from within the Community to get a new location for
Vashon played a role180
00:28:54.720 --> 00:29:14.220
Jim Gass: in getting the city on board, I should say, because during the credits
of your film there, I saw, you know, the names of a lot of different city 00:19:00agencies, and I was wondering if the- if the project to get a new location for Vashon originated in the Community, or with the- with the city itself.181
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:32.250
Rosalind Norman: No, if you listen to a couple of the people that were part of
the interview and- I probably shouldn't say no so quickly, I just want to maybe say, let me see if I can clarify. In the video you can recall a couple people who were a part of the Vashon Alumni Association and, um, um and182
00:29:34.350 --> 00:29:35.010
Rosalind Norman: various
183
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Rosalind Norman: other entities, they pushed
184
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Rosalind Norman: Especially the alumni association pushed from within the
Community to have built the new Vashon and if you noticed, there was a lady early on185
00:29:50.640 --> 00:30:06.750
Rosalind Norman: whoo talked about you know the pride they took in knowing the
history of Vashon, but they knew also the building here over on Bell, which is very important, why I was able to show you the picture of how it looked on Bell, 00:20:00it was like a factory, you know, setting.186
00:30:07.830 --> 00:30:14.640
Rosalind Norman: And to you know and I can still remember how dilapidated, I
mean we get all kinds of issues in that building.187
00:30:15.900 --> 00:30:28.440
Rosalind Norman: Because it just went totally, how can I say this to a point
where, you know, rats, you know rodents, you name it, they were there, you know, even while students were there, I mean we were constantly having problems with, um,188
00:30:30.270 --> 00:30:38.310
Rosalind Norman: The water system, the pipes, you name it, you know just how- we
never had any kind of air conditioner, air conditioning unit in the building, so you can only imagine, okay.189
00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:47.190
Rosalind Norman: um so it was a push from within the Community first and, of
course, different wants and their relationships with190
00:30:47.700 --> 00:31:03.630
Rosalind Norman: Some of the various elected officials got involved with it and,
and, and then eventually with the, how can I say, the success really of Jeff Vanderlou and Macler Shepard made a major difference because why? We are here in 00:21:00St. Louis,191
00:31:04.710 --> 00:31:15.750
Rosalind Norman: through Macler Shepard's enterprise of establishing Jeff
Vanderlou as one of the first urban renewal projects nationwide. It brought a lot of192
00:31:16.050 --> 00:31:26.880
Rosalind Norman: attention to St Louis, okay, especially to that area that
surrounded where the Vashon on Bell was located because that was part of the 63106193
00:31:27.090 --> 00:31:33.990
Rosalind Norman: zip code, which is part of Jeff Vanderlou's area, okay. I just
need you to understand, I'm trying to give you context and so having, uh,,194
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:58.260
Rosalind Norman: The success, initially, of Jeff Vanderlou, I think that gave it
a strong foundation because a couple Presidents, we're talking United States Presidents visited Jeff Vanderlou, Okay, because of this success as a major urban renewal hub, nationwide, okay, if you really look at a model, and given that kind of195
00:31:58.290 --> 00:31:59.250
Rosalind Norman: track record,
196
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Rosalind Norman: Then, those who were a part of the Community that understood
00:22:00our self identification which the architect knew, so it was very important, so did Norman Say, Norman Say, by the way,197
00:32:12.510 --> 00:32:18.630
Rosalind Norman: was not only a civil rights activist, but he was very involved,
even at University of Missouri-St. Louis,198
00:32:19.290 --> 00:32:28.740
Rosalind Norman: During the days when they had their first African American
Chancellor Marguerite Barnett and they formed the St. Louis Black Leadership Forum, which I was a part of.199
00:32:29.070 --> 00:32:37.560
Rosalind Norman: So what i'm trying to do give you context you can see the
important role of some of those key players who were also filmed as a part of this video tape and200
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:54.840
Rosalind Norman: quite a few of them are dead now. Mac is dead, Norm Say is
dead, Catherine Nelson so our timing back in 1999 was very good to capture them, you know and have them included, and if you notice Mike McMillan, he was an Alderman at that time, he is now201
00:32:55.080 --> 00:32:56.940
Rosalind Norman: The CEO, the President for the
202
00:32:57.450 --> 00:33:13.170
Rosalind Norman: Urban League of Metropolitan St Louis so I'm trying to give
00:23:00you- Those are some major players that were involved, back in 1999 when my own small company Roz Norman Associates was given the opportunity to do the Community, um,203
00:33:14.790 --> 00:33:25.740
Rosalind Norman: I guess you could say, inventory, Community asset inventory for
the Danforth Foundation because why? Their foundation took an interest at a time when Jeff Vanderlou204
00:33:26.850 --> 00:33:37.380
Rosalind Norman: As a neighborhood, as a community, was on the decline and I
think there was some political, how can I say this so you'll understand...205
00:33:40.350 --> 00:33:49.350
Rosalind Norman: underpinnings that was playing a part in this because someone-
and Macler had told me, because Macler's like, my role model, as well as my mentor,206
00:33:49.950 --> 00:33:58.080
Rosalind Norman: you know, when I was young but I came up under people like
Macler and Norman Say, and different ones within our communities, and I was really blessed in that sense.207
00:33:58.320 --> 00:34:10.680
Rosalind Norman: I was always this young person very interested in in the
community and our families, and you know in our young people and what have you, 00:24:00so having those kind of role models and having really, I'm talking about,208
00:34:11.190 --> 00:34:20.700
Rosalind Norman: candid conversations with them about what was really happening
behind the scenes, because you can have a lot of people would come into your community and i'm talking,209
00:34:21.090 --> 00:34:28.320
Rosalind Norman: Even elected officials, and they can claim be interested in
your community but they're not going to really support it when it comes time210
00:34:28.590 --> 00:34:42.210
Rosalind Norman: For looking at how we allocate necessary funding for making
housing really affordable and especially home ownership for people who come from that kind of community oftentimes are low-income, okay,211
00:34:43.260 --> 00:34:51.450
Rosalind Norman: And people come Okay, so there are some realities there you
know I live with versus What was really happening,212
00:34:51.930 --> 00:35:08.430
Rosalind Norman: Not just politically, but also on the economic level, they
would have the game for conviction to take an interest back in that time 1999 00:25:00was interesting because you can hear Bob Koff say that the Foundation has shifted their strategy from213
00:35:09.030 --> 00:35:21.630
Rosalind Norman: providing net new grants on the national, you know, basis, that
it was just focusing on St Louis, okay, and that was really the precursor of what was going to happen with 2004, we need to look up,214
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:31.920
Rosalind Norman: if you haven't already, what happened with the Danforth
Foundation, Civic Progress and different ones, you know, what we can call the ones who really ran.215
00:35:32.610 --> 00:35:38.880
Rosalind Norman: what was going on not just be- you know and politics but
economically in the City of St. Louis. I216
00:35:39.600 --> 00:35:57.390
Rosalind Norman: really need to, if I don't, you know, if I don't say anything
else, I really want to drive home that point, so you can understand the role of Civic Progress. If you haven't heard about that group already, please check into them because a lot of what was happening even back in217
00:35:58.530 --> 00:36:00.390
Rosalind Norman: 1999, what with the shift of the Danforth Foundation
218
00:36:00.630 --> 00:36:05.520
Rosalind Norman: to focusing on St. Louis was what, getting us ready for that
00:26:002004 plan, okay.219
00:36:06.660 --> 00:36:13.380
Rosalind Norman: The 2004 plan was laying the groundwork for continue to blight
a lot of the,220
00:36:15.210 --> 00:36:24.750
Rosalind Norman: how can I say, healthy Okay, and, in essence, cut back on
whatever support financially221
00:36:25.050 --> 00:36:30.450
Rosalind Norman: That was initially given to Jeff Vanderlou after Macler Shepard
and his different projects and you need to understand this,222
00:36:30.660 --> 00:36:42.570
Rosalind Norman: This is very important, because now it can bring you fast
forward to what's happening now with the building of the National Geospatial Intelligence Foundation, okay. Not foundation, sorry, the National Intelligence223
00:36:44.190 --> 00:36:48.330
Rosalind Norman: Agency which is NGA, that's the acronym, new West headquarters,
224
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Rosalind Norman: Which is
225
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Rosalind Norman: actually going to be built there right off the corner of
226
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Rosalind Norman: Cass and Jefferson.
227
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:56.310
Rosalind Norman: So you need to understand that there's context for this and
I've been around long enough.228
00:36:56.610 --> 00:36:57.930
Rosalind Norman: If you get a chance to look at
229
00:36:57.930 --> 00:37:08.640
Rosalind Norman: My written report, there was a written report I was supposed to
00:27:00have done, you know, you know for the Danforth Foundation, and you know between me and the Danforth Foundation, but I felt the need to keep the hard copy of it.230
00:37:09.720 --> 00:37:17.460
Rosalind Norman: And i'm like you know, and I do have a word copy that I shared,
I remember sharing with Jim Cooper when he was the Co-President of Urban League, this is231
00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:37.830
Rosalind Norman: again, back in 1999, I- you know shared with Macler Shepard as
well as Norman Say, I even have personal conversations with them, even when I first took on this contract to look at getting community support for the project, you know our foot to the project being the building232
00:37:38.160 --> 00:37:40.920
Rosalind Norman: of a new Vashon and that was because of my contract with the
Danforth Foundation.233
00:37:42.120 --> 00:37:44.820
Rosalind Norman: And so i'm saying all this to say to you.
234
00:37:46.050 --> 00:37:56.910
Rosalind Norman: Because it was full circle for me, that means because I grew up
in Jeff Vanderlou, I understood you know our culture and the people, and you know the, uh235
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:12.180
Rosalind Norman: Various kinds of stakeholders, that you know, may have been and
00:28:00were at different times interested in what was going on in Jeff Vanderlou, especially you know through the leadership of Macler Shepard, and then we we had so many other, uh236
00:38:12.780 --> 00:38:24.330
Rosalind Norman: activists like Norm Say and different ones and then at that
time we had Congressman William Lacy Clay, the father, okay, William L. Clay the father. Oh, I mean they were very much237
00:38:25.980 --> 00:38:31.230
Rosalind Norman: invested, let's say in, Jeff Vanderlou and we began to see
purposely over the years, see how...238
00:38:31.860 --> 00:38:40.080
Rosalind Norman: And Macler had prepared me for this, you know, years ago, he
said Rosalind watch, he said, because we're strategically- Jeff Vanderlou is strategically located,239
00:38:40.290 --> 00:38:50.700
Rosalind Norman: if you think about it, we're not that far from downtown St.
Louis and City Hall, just so you understand it, and then what the plans are, when you start looking at urban planning, the location of Jeff Vanderlou240
00:38:51.240 --> 00:39:01.920
Rosalind Norman: It's strategic, okay, when we look at the City, and you get the
development- you know the plans for development, okay. So I'm saying a lot of things and I'm probably pushing it out there, you know, 00:29:00241
00:39:02.430 --> 00:39:10.650
Rosalind Norman: so that I can give you the context understand what you just
raised. Yes, there were a lot of stakeholders that we wanted to make sure242
00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:21.150
Rosalind Norman: that we included when we were looking at the development of
this short video piece, okay, but my students also were given a lot of liberty and cre- creative,243
00:39:21.510 --> 00:39:29.880
Rosalind Norman: You could say, autonomy to look at a lot of information and all
the different interviews and select how they want to put the short piece together because why?244
00:39:30.180 --> 00:39:42.030
Rosalind Norman: Part of my written report that was submitted to the Danforth
Foundation mentioned the fact that my students were creating this, a short video documentary and then we wanted to make it available to...245
00:39:42.750 --> 00:39:52.080
Rosalind Norman: The residents of Jeff Vanderlou, okay, and we did, okay, and
not only that we, you know, we had it was covered on Channel Nine, KETC, and a whole lot of246
00:39:52.110 --> 00:40:01.020
Rosalind Norman: other places, and you know so i'm saying all this to say that
it was very important at the time but I'm also trying to give you a timeline so you understand. 00:30:00247
00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:13.050
Rosalind Norman: We saw those of us who are, you know, who are familiar with how
some of those stakeholders that were involved in that video, how we even, it has248
00:40:14.460 --> 00:40:31.200
Rosalind Norman: grown in some ways, you know, to the kind of stakeholders you
may see now this interested in what's going on in their area, especially with the building of the NGA West headquarters right there off the corner of Cass and Jefferson literally walking distance from where I grew up, okay.249
00:40:32.460 --> 00:40:32.670
Rosalind Norman: So I hope that helped to you understand that
250
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Rosalind Norman: no, it came from inside the community and up,
251
00:40:37.350 --> 00:40:37.920
Rosalind Norman: okay, first.
252
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Jim Gass: Yes, Okay, yes, now that's very helpful, that context is helpful,
especially because it does a pretty great job of tying together what we're what we're discussing in our project.253
00:40:48.210 --> 00:40:57.930
Jim Gass: Which is that the shifts in the neighborhood over time, in terms of
its buildings, but also in terms of the direction that it's taking as far as development goes. Now,254
00:40:59.190 --> 00:41:05.730
Jim Gass: you'd mentioned the Danforth Foundation shifted its focus around the
00:31:00time that this- that your film was made, in the 90s.255
00:41:06.810 --> 00:41:21.090
Jim Gass: Were they originally from or based in St Louis before that and are
they, like is the actual Danforth foundation still involved in the NGA project as it's going now?256
00:41:21.540 --> 00:41:22.110
Rosalind Norman: You know what, that's an interesting question.
257
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Rosalind Norman: If you, you do your research, go back and look, you know let me
pull it up, if you want.258
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:36.930
Rosalind Norman: The Danforth Foundation- let me share the screen-it is really a family-
259
00:41:38.490 --> 00:41:41.940
Rosalind Norman: oriented foundation, just so you know that. If you're familiar with.
260
00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:45.900
Rosalind Norman: The former Senator John Danforth? Right?
261
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Jim Gass: The name rings a bell but I can't say I know much about him.
262
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Rosalind Norman: William Danforth
263
00:41:50.970 --> 00:41:51.990
Rosalind Norman: with Washington University. The Danforth-
264
00:41:52.830 --> 00:41:54.600
Rosalind Norman: You know they have part of the campus named after them.
265
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Rosalind Norman: Okay, so let me pull this up-
Jim Gass: I
266
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Jim Gass: live right by there actually.
267
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Rosalind Norman: Pardon?
Jim Gass: I live right by there actually, right by the big sign that says
00:32:00"Danforth campus."268
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Rosalind Norman: There you go. I'm going to show you some-
269
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Rosalind Norman: this is important, i'm glad you raised that question
270
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Rosalind Norman:
271
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Jim Gass: I can.
Rosalind Norman: OK.
272
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Rosalind Norman: I will just put in, "who is the Danforth Foundation."
273
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Rosalind Norman:
274
00:42:29.370 --> 00:42:32.010
Rosalind Norman: say what, I said who. So okay now...
275
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Rosalind Norman: Here we go, here's the answer. Okay, it was 84 years ago that
William H. Danforth the pioneer of industry founded what? Ralston Purina. See I want you to really try to see the connection.276
00:42:44.220 --> 00:42:51.900
Rosalind Norman: And this is then giving you context. Okay, so if you were to
look this up, you see the Danforth family, here it is:277
00:42:52.950 --> 00:43:00.150
Rosalind Norman: His wife, Ada, and children Donald and Dorothy created the
Danforth Doundation.278
00:43:01.890 --> 00:43:19.320
Rosalind Norman: You can see here: the Danforth Foundation was one of the
00:33:00largest private nonprofit foundations in the St. Louis Metropolitan region. It closed its doors and 2011 after 34 years of operation, and more than a billion dollars in grants distributed. This is according to the look-head on Wikipedia, okay.279
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:29.310
Rosalind Norman: It was founded in 1927. Interesting, that was the same year,
what? That they opened Vashon High School. I'm just making some280
00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:30.600
Rosalind Norman: connections for you okay.
281
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:40.680
Rosalind Norman: There are other different foundations and all but, if you think
about it, let's look further at the connection okay for282
00:43:42.330 --> 00:43:56.700
Rosalind Norman: The Danforth Foundation's legacy in St Louis continues but we
want to look at the end of the Danforth Foundation, let's see if we can look at this... Okay, the end of the Danforth Foundation.283
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:04.050
Rosalind Norman: Final gift of 70 million, now this is important, again, giving
00:34:00you context, okay.284
00:44:06.120 --> 00:44:13.890
Rosalind Norman: To what? the Donald Danforth Plant Science Center, would have
made Jack Danforth, his grandfather, proud. Okay so,285
00:44:18.150 --> 00:44:26.100
Rosalind Norman: Anyway, that means, if I can get this down okay i'm just trying
to give you this so you can understand, but he is still connected because why?286
00:44:26.490 --> 00:44:41.910
Rosalind Norman: You got Ralston Purina right here in St. Louis- downtown St.
Louis- in a sense. Just you know, South of City Hall, OK. In fact, South, southeast of City Hall and I'm saying all this to say to you...287
00:44:43.620 --> 00:45:03.780
Rosalind Norman: Here, just look through this and make some connections for
yourself. Jack Danforth who also works as a partner, all this stuff is connected. Bryan Cave Law Firm, which is one of St. Louis's largest law firms, let's see...these are connected and I'm doing this because I want you to get into 00:35:00288
00:45:06.930 --> 00:45:15.450
Rosalind Norman: understanding those stakeholders, Okay, and the role they play
and how St. Louis moves forward, Okay, let me pull up, can you still see my screen?289
00:45:15.630 --> 00:45:16.740
Jim Gass: I can.
Rosalind Norman: Okay.
290
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Rosalind Norman: Here is Civic Progress which is very important for you as you
do your- if you don't do this I want you to you know, know, okay.291
00:45:25.530 --> 00:45:31.710
Rosalind Norman: Here is St. Louis Progress St. Louis's members- well Civic
Progress, um, St. Louis's members-292
00:45:33.510 --> 00:45:36.510
Rosalind Norman: The reason why I want to bring this up, Okay, because.
293
00:45:37.680 --> 00:45:46.320
Rosalind Norman: these Members are the ones who really run St. Louis. You may
have elected officials, but these people really do run St. Louis even now.294
00:45:46.500 --> 00:45:47.130
Jim Gass: Right.
295
00:45:47.820 --> 00:45:55.740
Rosalind Norman: And this is important for you to understand Okay, because why?
The Danforth family, has oftentimes been a part of Civic Progress.296
00:45:57.060 --> 00:46:01.950
Rosalind Norman: Danforth, the Danforth family, consider them old money for St.
00:36:00Louis, okay.297
00:46:02.310 --> 00:46:03.420
Jim Gass: Right.
Rosalind Norman: okay.
298
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Rosalind Norman: So here, just look at some of these names and look at their
associations, okay? From Anheuser Busch, Ameren, Bayer, which used to be Monsanto, Bank of America...299
00:46:14.310 --> 00:46:17.040
Jim Gass: I see Wells Fargo in there, too.
Rosalind Norman: Emerson.
300
00:46:17.130 --> 00:46:18.840
Rosalind Norman: These are some major players in St. Louis.
301
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Rosalind Norman: Okay you've noticed, some of them were included, at least
representatives were included, in our what? 1999 video. like Yvonne, I still stay in touch with Yvonne, Yvonne was working as a VP, one of the few Black302
00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:47.100
Rosalind Norman: females as a VP at Bank of America at the time, in St. Louis,
okay? I'm just trying to you know give you context, so you can see there is still something going on, connecting the Boeing company, Cycle, BJC.303
00:46:47.970 --> 00:47:06.450
Rosalind Norman: These are just some of the, you know, and Meritz, Washing-
There it is, Washington University, um, Gray Bar, St Louis University, Edward Jones, you see the list, okay.Jim Gass: I do.
Rosalind Norman: These are the groups that really run St. Louis, so if we go on
00:37:00so, here are the ex-officios, just so you know.304
00:47:07.530 --> 00:47:20.070
Rosalind Norman: There you, go you see Lyda? Ok, Sam Page. See this is an
important thing to know, from university of Missouri St Louis, your own chancellor? to Okay, Dr Kristen, how do you say her last name? Sobolik?305
00:47:20.640 --> 00:47:21.420
Jim Gass: Something like that.
306
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Rosalind Norman: Okay, so what i'm trying to- look at what they're saying: Civic
Progress wants to advance initiatives and activity, address urgent needs and long term goals for the St. Louis region. As a small focus organization...307
00:47:36.750 --> 00:47:43.980
Rosalind Norman: Except you can read this for yourself, OK.
Jim Gass: OK.
Rosalind Norman: Now i'm going to take you something else on google. Now, again,
I'm giving you context.308
00:47:45.060 --> 00:47:46.950
Rosalind Norman: I want to keep this real and I want to address this.
309
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Rosalind Norman: The Veiled Prophet. You have heard of that right?
310
00:47:52.530 --> 00:47:53.610
Jim Gass: Can you say that again, please.
311
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Both: The Veiled Prophet
312
00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:59.160
Rosalind Norman: of St. Louis
Jim Gass: This is not something i've ever heard of before, actually.
313
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Rosalind Norman: Okay, this is good for me to tell.
00:38:00314
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:03.300
Jim Gass: Yeah, okay.
315
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Rosalind Norman: Now you see it. Go down, right here to this one, this is very
important, look at these images.316
00:48:11.010 --> 00:48:15.120
Rosalind Norman: The Veiled Prophet, this is a lot, this is St. Louis, this is real.
317
00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:15.690
Jim Gass: Right.
318
00:48:15.780 --> 00:48:20.220
Rosalind Norman: Look at this piece here: "symbol of wealth, power, and to some, racism."
319
00:48:20.580 --> 00:48:20.760
Rosalind Norman: and then-
Jim Gass: Yeahhhh.
320
00:48:21.780 --> 00:48:42.090
Rosalind Norman: yeah OK now i'm giving you context, so you can understand why I
said what I did about Jeff Vanderlou being in a strategically located neighborhood and why I witness how they purposefully, like Macler said they were going to do, blighted so many homes and different organizations within that community.321
00:48:42.330 --> 00:48:54.900
Rosalind Norman: It's all a part of a long term goal which now has resulted in
what? the building of NGA West headquarters, which means anything, within a certain322
00:48:55.440 --> 00:49:14.430
Rosalind Norman: One now to two mile radius around that new facility is going to
00:39:00have to what? almost be what? changed or leveled or demolished. I'm just being real with you, so you can understand this, this- it's very close to my heart. Okay, so let me323
00:49:20.190 --> 00:49:20.820
Rosalind Norman: Let me see if I can et back to this because I think I touched
something and lost it...I want to get back to this part.324
00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:24.630
Jim Gass: No yeah, This is all blowing my mind.
325
00:49:24.720 --> 00:49:28.290
Jim Gass: I mean I figured there's a lot of connections like this here, but this is...
Rosalind Norman: I hope it is!
326
00:49:28.620 --> 00:49:31.830
Jim Gass: This is laying them bare pretty, pretty starkly here.
327
00:49:32.250 --> 00:49:41.100
Rosalind Norman: There you go and I want you to know this because I think if you
want to talk about what, what Lois Conley has fought for for so many years, because really, I've known Lois more than328
00:49:42.180 --> 00:49:53.820
Rosalind Norman: 25 years and I think she would be able to help you and i'm
just- i'm just laying it out, you know Lois got the museum that she has fought for, she has caught the bag, I mean I remember, even when she first got started.Jim Gass: Mhm.
329
00:49:54.240 --> 00:49:54.810
Rosalind Norman: I'm serious.
330
00:49:55.110 --> 00:50:12.660
Rosalind Norman: But this is what i'm talking about, this is history, this is
real and we need to deal with this, we need to make sure that we address this, 00:40:00because we will never get past the in- how can I say this-the indoctrination, the.331
00:50:14.070 --> 00:50:16.650
Rosalind Norman: covert form of racism St. Louis.
Jim Gass: Mhm.
332
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:17.130
Rosalind Norman: Okay.
333
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:25.620
Rosalind Norman: i'm just trying to give you some words right now i'm just
thinking off top my head, but the words I'm trying to get at is that racism,334
00:50:26.760 --> 00:50:34.380
Rosalind Norman: If you want to call it systemic, if you want to call it
structural, it was built into the urban planning of St. Louis the city.335
00:50:35.550 --> 00:50:42.240
Rosalind Norman: And now I'm going to give you the power behind that in this
article, look at the date on this article: December 22, 2019. So it's336
00:50:42.660 --> 00:50:56.220
Rosalind Norman: fairly new, and look at the source. That should be a reliable
source, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, you see what i'm getting at, I'm getting at this, so the Post-Dispatch covered the first Veiled Prophet celebration, OK, now go down further, "gracing the city's, what,337
00:50:57.510 --> 00:50:58.200
Rosalind Norman: debutantes?"
338
00:50:59.250 --> 00:51:01.680
Rosalind Norman: A ball, parade, and this is true, because they used to have a
00:41:00Veiled Prophet339
00:51:01.680 --> 00:51:03.390
Rosalind Norman: parade, when I was growing up okay.
340
00:51:04.560 --> 00:51:12.330
Rosalind Norman: Now, this if you keep going, "the prophet's identity is still
kept a secret, and his presence still stirs controversy."341
00:51:12.720 --> 00:51:24.300
Rosalind Norman: Okay, the ball, used to be held in the fall of every year and
the parade used to be on the day of the party. "The organization was co-founded"- here it is- "by former confederate officer Alonzo Slayback."342
00:51:24.570 --> 00:51:39.720
Jim Gass: Right.
Rosalind Norman: Remember this article, pull it-I'm not trying to, you know, put
something out there that's not true, Okay, "the Prophet crowns a queen every year, the last names"- look at these names-"Kemper, Bush, Danforth, Schnuck..."343
00:51:40.500 --> 00:51:42.450
Jim Gass: Knew the Chouteaus were gonna end up in here somewhere.
344
00:51:43.470 --> 00:51:44.460
Rosalind Norman: Now do you see where I'm going?
345
00:51:45.810 --> 00:51:46.530
Jim Gass: Mhm.
Rosalind Norman: Good. Schnuck, Schlafly,
346
00:51:46.890 --> 00:51:53.190
Rosalind Norman: Chouteau, Cabanne, look at these names, okay, "the Veiled
Prophet Organization still holds a parade and funds Fair St.347
00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:58.350
Rosalind Norman: Louis"- now you see another connection-they fund Fair St Louis
to celebrate Independence348
00:51:59.430 --> 00:52:04.410
Rosalind Norman: Day. Look at this, this- This is just showing the 1873.
00:42:00349
00:52:06.120 --> 00:52:25.710
Rosalind Norman: Veiled Prophet, 1925 Veiled Prophet, so here's the, I mean,
1934 and, yes, I remember lining the streets when I was very young and, of course, there was a time we couldn't go certain places, and look, look at- look at the symbolism, symbolism of the Veiled Prophet, Okay, this is real!350
00:52:26.010 --> 00:52:34.800
Jim Gass: Uh huh.
Rosalind Norman: 1947, look at this, look there's some Blacks, some colors, see,
there's some colored people, you see a couple colored folk, you know, people of color are present at these parties, right?Jim Gass: Mhm.
Rosalind Norman: They're watching this parade, right?
351
00:52:35.820 --> 00:52:50.580
Rosalind Norman: Okay, so I just want you to now understand, why, when you
brought the word "stakeholders" to me this is very important because I look at all of this, okay,352
00:52:52.200 --> 00:53:03.360
Rosalind Norman: the Kiel Auditorium which is now renamed that you know, but
this is important for you to understand when you start talking about Jeff Vanderlou and start talking about why I said, 00:43:00353
00:53:03.780 --> 00:53:12.600
Rosalind Norman: and this affects my living firsthand and it was real for me, in
Jeff Vanderlou and having mentors and role models like Macler Shepard and Norman Seay.354
00:53:13.560 --> 00:53:31.170
Rosalind Norman: Even later on Katherine Nelson and I have have tremendous
respect for Congressman William Clay the father of Lacey Clay, who you know just lost the election to the new congresswoman Corey Bush, it's a lot here, I just want you to, if you get a chance go in and look at this okay,355
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:31.920
Rosalind Norman: Because I do not
356
00:53:32.520 --> 00:53:36.300
Rosalind Norman: want you to not understand these stakeholders and
357
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:37.830
Jim Gass: what is happening in St. Louis
358
00:53:38.640 --> 00:53:39.390
Rosalind Norman: The connection,
359
00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:39.990
Rosalind Norman: Okay,
360
00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:48.900
Rosalind Norman: So, that now, I can talk to you and stop sharing this,
361
00:53:49.770 --> 00:54:00.180
Rosalind Norman: about the neighborhood I grew up in and, get ready for this, I
live in near-downtown right next door to Jeff Vanderlou now. I live literally just a few minutes from where Jeff Vanderlou is now.362
00:54:01.020 --> 00:54:12.630
Rosalind Norman: Between where City Hall is and Jeff Vanderlou, I know Macler
00:44:00was telling the truth that we're strategically located, Okay, and so i'm saying all this again to say that, now,363
00:54:13.140 --> 00:54:24.690
Rosalind Norman: The thing- I remember the language, a couple people I remember
talking with when we joined this project, back in 1999, I still remember the language of Rosalind, Jeff Vanderlou is a political, how can I say this,364
00:54:29.370 --> 00:54:37.590
Rosalind Norman: They said it's a political football because, it's like, it's
like a game, that was being played but it was being played,365
00:54:41.340 --> 00:54:42.150
Rosalind Norman: without input or inclusion
366
00:54:44.790 --> 00:54:47.970
Rosalind Norman: Of the people in the actual neighborhood or community.
367
00:54:48.660 --> 00:55:03.930
Jim Gass: That's a very apt metaphor, like the idea that it's kind of being
passed off back and forth between these t- different stakeholders that are kind of playing a game with it, but- of course, that doesn't take into account, you 00:45:00know, the people that live there and work there.368
00:55:05.610 --> 00:55:07.620
Rosalind Norman: Right.
Jim Gass: Political football is pretty apt, it sounds like.
Rosalind Norman: And it still is! Think about it,
369
00:55:10.590 --> 00:55:12.300
Rosalind Norman: Okay, because one of my concerns now, even though we
370
00:55:13.980 --> 00:55:22.440
Rosalind Norman: just elected, our first black mayor, you know, Mayor Tishaura
Jones, I think it's gonna be interesting to see how she navigates371
00:55:22.770 --> 00:55:32.730
Rosalind Norman: You know, all those different relationships with those major
stakeholders who have been running, literally running St. Louis, you may have an elected official to a certain extent, just like President of the United States.372
00:55:33.030 --> 00:55:39.030
Rosalind Norman: They become a figurehead after a while, because the powers that
be is- there's another saying I can remember,373
00:55:41.040 --> 00:55:46.710
Rosalind Norman: You know, a distinguished you know, educator saying to me, you
know he in fact, this gentleman, he said Rosalind,374
00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:58.770
Rosalind Norman: He said remember the locus of power lies with the person who
holds the purse strings, in other words, he who wears the money, you know, really controls it.375
00:55:59.190 --> 00:56:10.710
Rosalind Norman: You know, so that's in short what I'm saying, you know, you can
00:46:00have people who're supposedly elected supposedly representing, you know, I have different wards Okay, which means all these different neighborhoods, right.376
00:56:11.130 --> 00:56:21.420
Rosalind Norman: But what it all boils down okay it's the people that have seen,
like those same people who were associated, as you saw, with the Veiled Prophet.377
00:56:23.070 --> 00:56:32.610
Rosalind Norman: Okay just- i'm just laying it out there, because they still-
all those companies, they have all these different representatives, they are still running what goes on in the City of St. Louis.378
00:56:36.930 --> 00:56:50.460
Jim Gass: The uh, imagery and the paegantry associated with the Veiled Prophet,
that really makes me think of Carnival in New Orleans and how that was really- That was really a coalescing of the old money of that city,379
00:56:51.060 --> 00:56:52.740
Jim Gass: The power players there
380
00:56:53.700 --> 00:56:58.320
Jim Gass: at least into the late '20s and probably after that, for all I know, but.
381
00:56:59.700 --> 00:57:12.840
Jim Gass: The way you described Jeff Vanderlou as being a very strategic
00:47:00location, that kind of makes it sound like it's- like I wouldn't call it a multigenerational project to develop it exactly, but like, say a project that spanned382
00:57:13.590 --> 00:57:24.030
Jim Gass: You know, however, many mayoral administrations,which- which makes
your point about how the new Mayor Tishaura Jones will383
00:57:24.690 --> 00:57:40.770
Jim Gass: handle it more interesting because it's sort of like she'd be picking
up where all these other administrations have left off at but also, kind of you know, administering that long term projects like in- kind of in her own way, I guess.384
00:57:42.210 --> 00:58:00.480
Jim Gass: And it sounds like that- but it sounds like that project, if you want
to call it that, like this long term project kind of goes above, like the city government it's more so, and it's more so, something directed by these long term stakeholders that you've been describing go back 00:48:00385
00:58:01.770 --> 00:58:06.510
Jim Gass: How many- however many decades. Would you say that, you know,
386
00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:21.420
Jim Gass: back when you know, Macler Shepard was still doing his work, would
you say that the vision included something like the NGA site, or like, say, like a single,387
00:58:22.710 --> 00:58:31.650
Jim Gass: Like project that would hopefully I g-I guess, accomplish some goal
for the- for not just the neighborhood but the city?388
00:58:32.610 --> 00:58:38.040
Rosalind Norman: Let me, let me pull up something too, though...Jeff Vanderlou,
city of St. Louis,389
00:58:44.160 --> 00:58:45.420
Rosalind Norman: And this comes from
390
00:58:47.640 --> 00:58:49.350
Rosalind Norman: The Government site on this,
391
00:58:50.580 --> 00:58:52.680
Rosalind Norman: and wikipedia has something on it, too.
392
00:58:54.030 --> 00:59:09.480
Rosalind Norman: Let me try to- let me pull this up, so I like to do images
sometimes when we're talking Okay, so let me go back to Google okay share Okay. 00:49:00Because again i'm trying to give you accurate information.393
00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:18.210
Rosalind Norman: And I really would like for you to get a hold of that printed
copy or hard copy that I sent to Dr Lara Kelland394
00:59:19.200 --> 00:59:19.890
Jim Gass: I will ask her about it.
395
00:59:20.340 --> 00:59:21.660
Rosalind Norman: About my report, okay.
396
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:22.590
Rosalind Norman: In fact,
397
00:59:24.810 --> 00:59:30.180
Rosalind Norman: I kept it right here, because I'm right at my desk okay it's
called Vashon, in fact, i'll put it up398
00:59:31.470 --> 00:59:47.190
Rosalind Norman: In a little bit, it's called Vashon High School Initiative
Asset Inventory to go to the Danforth Foundation and then in parentheses it's a revised September 7 1999 you see my old company name, Roz Norman Associates, on the front cover Okay, but it's the only hard copy,399
00:59:47.190 --> 00:59:48.210
Rosalind Norman: Because my disc,
400
00:59:48.420 --> 01:00:02.520
Rosalind Norman: my ROM floppy disk messed up, you know was corrupted, you know,
moving back and forth, so I don't have it digitalized- digitized, Okay, so I only have a hard copy I've been able to save all these years Okay, but let me 00:50:00pull this up, so you can see something.401
01:00:03.570 --> 01:00:04.740
Rosalind Norman: You still can see
402
01:00:05.430 --> 01:00:06.480
Rosalind Norman: from your desktop, right?
403
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:09.330
Jim Gass: I can.
Roalind Norman: okay, good. okay.
404
01:00:10.200 --> 01:00:12.660
Rosalind Norman: Okay let's see... okay...
405
01:00:32.610 --> 01:00:33.240
Rosalind Norman: History...
406
01:00:37.980 --> 01:00:49.950
Rosalind Norman: Okay here. Okay, "in a time of racial segregation following the
end of slavery" okay, this is wikipedia "Jeff Vanderlou was originally designated as the city's negro district."407
01:00:50.310 --> 01:00:53.760
Jim Gass: And it was kind of enforced by, like, restrictive covenants correct?
408
01:00:54.420 --> 01:00:58.320
Rosalind Norman: Here we go. See now you're getting into it, but look at this:
you have-409
01:00:58.920 --> 01:01:09.690
Rosalind Norman: It was one of the only places where African Americans were
00:51:00allowed to own land, it is also where Sportsman's Park later, known as busch stadium ONE, stood from 1902 to 1966.410
01:01:10.020 --> 01:01:18.150
Rosalind Norman: Okay, and it you know gives you the area code to get there but
that's Wikipedia, but I want to get you to something more credible, the area is- see, here we go.411
01:01:20.490 --> 01:01:23.940
Rosalind Norman: Because you want to go to- this is the government's take on this.
412
01:01:25.530 --> 01:01:27.690
Rosalind Norman: Because they have their way of describing it, okay.
413
01:01:28.350 --> 01:01:31.680
Rosalind Norman: It's good to know that okay this is supposed to be a reliable
source, okay.414
01:01:33.120 --> 01:01:41.640
Rosalind Norman: And it gives you the boundaries okay of Jeff Vanderlou, now
here's where they have a little bit of the history, okay it's part of the area referred to as the Yeatman area.415
01:01:42.330 --> 01:01:53.820
Rosalind Norman: "Named for prominent Tennessee," you know, natives, Okay, then
it goes on and talks about director of the Western Sanitary Commission during the Civil War, see now you're going to get a little bit of flavor. The Confederacy416
01:01:54.210 --> 01:02:05.160
Rosalind Norman: has so much connection with even the city of St Louis and when
I say strategically located, you know I think I can say that it is strategically 00:52:00located for the City of417
01:02:05.250 --> 01:02:06.630
Rosalind Norman: St. Louis, right in the heart of it all.
418
01:02:06.630 --> 01:02:07.830
Rosalind Norman: and then it goes into
419
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:09.150
Rosalind Norman: The history here.
420
01:02:09.510 --> 01:02:09.990
Rosalind Norman: Okay.
421
01:02:11.070 --> 01:02:21.570
Rosalind Norman: "Since its inception, it's a residential, commercial, and" i'm
gonna get you to- what I wouldn't- when Jeff Vanderlou was in its Heyday under Macler Shepard422
01:02:22.290 --> 01:02:33.810
Rosalind Norman: Okay, it was on- okay it was during the days when JVL was on
the edge of St Louis as opposed to being in the thick of it today, it was home to one of the city's" there it is423
01:02:36.690 --> 01:02:38.220
Rosalind Norman: "elite private streets, Vandeventer Place"
Jim Gass: Good okay.
424
01:02:38.550 --> 01:02:42.420
Jim Gass: We read about that quite a bit Dr Kelland's class, last semester.
Rosalind Norman: Okay, good.
425
01:02:42.480 --> 01:02:53.010
Rosalind Norman: Good now you see why i'm getting ready to say this. "After
years of loss due to disinvestment and neglect" didn't I tell you Macler had warned me back in the late426
01:02:53.820 --> 01:03:00.300
Rosalind Norman: 60s, early 70s, I just gave you validation of what he said and
what I just told you.427
01:03:01.560 --> 01:03:14.460
Rosalind Norman: We have years of loss due to, investment and neglect that right there to me
00:53:00indicates purpose in what? Blighting that area, so that it can what? Be428
01:03:14.910 --> 01:03:15.300
Rosalind Norman: Set aside or
429
01:03:15.960 --> 01:03:26.400
Rosalind Norman: Something else for political or economic gain. I'm just putting
it out there, then it goes on to say "Vandeventer Place were sacrificed and replaced with public institutions."430
01:03:27.180 --> 01:03:34.020
Rosalind Norman: You have the, you know, you have the "eastern edge is the VA
Medical center" off of Grand, right there near Bell, okay.431
01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:43.200
Rosalind Norman: Oh, "in 1947 the city acquired the Western portion" and it
keeps on going. The old sports- Sportsman's Park, former home of the St. Louis Browns and St. Louis Cardinals.432
01:03:43.620 --> 01:03:56.190
Rosalind Norman: It now the site of the Boys and Girls Club. See all this is
connected, i'm just- you know that's- that's the city's site, Okay, their history information, just so you know, okay. Ummm, let me get back to- i'm just trying to433
01:03:56.610 --> 01:04:06.210
Rosalind Norman: Get back to your whole thing. What Macler had with- Macler
Shepard was working and he was really creating this thriving Black, 00:54:00434
01:04:06.990 --> 01:04:19.080
Rosalind Norman: You know, low income community that was identified as Jeff
Vanderlou, right, okay in that Community- this is the truth- we had actual435
01:04:19.710 --> 01:04:28.080
Rosalind Norman: we had-we had a medical clinic there, we had-we had all sorts
of health services in that community, there were actual places in that community436
01:04:28.470 --> 01:04:37.440
Rosalind Norman: that was in Jeff Vanderlou, we had the Brown Shoe Company, that
company took- and built a factory from the ground up right there off the Jefferson, it437
01:04:38.040 --> 01:04:50.520
Rosalind Norman: sits- let me see if I can find that- it sits right off
Jefferson, it's got the eastern end of Jeff Vanderlou right there at Jefferson, where, across the street from it would have been- or is!- the Gateway438
01:04:52.380 --> 01:05:10.950
Rosalind Norman: Gateway Middle- No, elementary and middle school, Okay, if I
can- and all that was blighted, we actually had the Brown Shoe Company build a 00:55:00factory right there in our Community and hire the people. I'm telling you this- I'm telling you the truth, Okay, also in the Community we had439
01:05:12.720 --> 01:05:14.910
Rosalind Norman: We had Opportunity House, let me point that out to you.
440
01:05:16.290 --> 01:05:24.660
Rosalind Norman: There again coming from in the community, if you're going to
have people who have moved, who have migrated, think about this, from the South441
01:05:25.260 --> 01:05:35.670
Rosalind Norman: And they end up stopping off in St. Louis and was living in
Mill Creek area, and then you know into the Jeff Vanderlou area and were moving into the Jeff Vanderlou are, Macler was what?442
01:05:36.060 --> 01:05:49.770
Rosalind Norman: renovating a lot of those old homes, one of the things he would
say, as long as the bricks and the structure is safe and sound, you can go in and renovate. That was Macler- this essence of his, you know philosophy for renovation right?443
01:05:50.250 --> 01:06:01.800
Rosalind Norman: And so, in order for people who were not accustomed to owning
their own home, he'd have those homes renovated and that would then give them the opportunity to buy it. Understand this. 00:56:00444
01:06:02.340 --> 01:06:11.400
Rosalind Norman: He put them into Opportunity House, you know for the family who
was placed, you know, wanted to renovate it and wanted to own it as a home,445
01:06:11.880 --> 01:06:21.810
Rosalind Norman: into Opportunity House- that was the name of it- was a
transitional place for their family, while their home was being renovated, and at the same time,446
01:06:22.200 --> 01:06:30.000
Rosalind Norman: It was preparing them for home ownership, because so many of
those families, this would be the first time they would own their own home.447
01:06:30.510 --> 01:06:38.190
Rosalind Norman: So in Opportunity House Macler took different people from the
Community and all the different organizations he had working with him, they set up448
01:06:38.580 --> 01:06:51.360
Rosalind Norman: they had temporary housing for that family while their home was
being renovated, they set up a place, actual place where the family could live at the same time, and learn what it would449
01:06:51.720 --> 01:06:52.170
Rosalind Norman: Take
450
01:06:52.470 --> 01:07:06.450
Rosalind Norman: To maintain property, which was their home, Okay, how do you
do, you know, simple repairs, what do you need to do, you know how to budget, 00:57:00for, you know, the unexpected, all of that. Can you believe that?451
01:07:07.500 --> 01:07:12.300
Rosalind Norman: Back then! There was the kind of foresight and that was
happening in that neighborhood then, okay.452
01:07:13.110 --> 01:07:24.270
Jim Gass: That's the kind of work that nonprofits still do today, like it's
still a novel idea and you're talking about this being decades ago, that this idea was like being implemented. With- with success, it sounds like.453
01:07:24.390 --> 01:07:26.010
Jim Gass: with serious success.
Rosalind Norman: There you go. I'm not even-sure that they- i'm typing this in-
I don't know if you can still see this screen,454
01:07:30.780 --> 01:07:42.810
Rosalind Norman: i'm not even sure how much they kept about, you know, what was
going on in Jeff Vanderlou, Okay, but if you look at- see, the opportunity- see, they may not call it that, but that's what we called it455
01:07:43.770 --> 01:07:54.570
Rosalind Norman: Within the Community. "Small church steps up to help rebuild a
broken north-" see guess what they call it now, again here we go. If we were to look at this, and a little bit of this may456
01:07:54.960 --> 01:08:06.150
Rosalind Norman: pop into play for you too because I would imagine you want to,
you know, look at the connection between the past of Jeff Vanderlou and then 00:58:00what they talking about now.457
01:08:08.640 --> 01:08:20.940
Jim Gass: Absolutely
Rosalind Norman: So you have the Tabernacle Community Development Corp, you know
DNS from within the Community, the church with, you know, that's, you know, i'm working to,458
01:08:21.390 --> 01:08:36.030
Rosalind Norman: In essence, you know remember the days almost sixty, you know,
years ago, getting that started again, you see it coming again from people who are familiar with how things should come from within the Community. Um, we had, Oh, my goodness,459
01:08:37.290 --> 01:08:52.770
Rosalind Norman: We just had- we had a lot of things in our Community for that
Community- Here, this is another very important piece: "Jeff Vanderlou, an area roughly bounded by Delmar Boulevard and Natural Bridge,460
01:08:53.580 --> 01:09:04.530
Rosalind Norman: Jefferson and Vandeventer Avenues, once was one of the most
densely populated neighborhoods in the city. It had big employers," now, look at 00:59:00these names, okay.461
01:09:04.830 --> 01:09:13.950
Jim Gass: Right.
Rosalind Norman: such as Carter Carburetor, my mom even worked a Carter
Carburetor for a while, when she was working all kinds of jobs while she went to school to finish her undergrad,462
01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:21.600
Rosalind Norman: yeah at St. Louis University and she started working on her
Masters and she was in her 50s and yet she came from a family of sharecroppers. I'm just trying to give you463
01:09:21.930 --> 01:09:32.940
Rosalind Norman: You know, the lay of the land and all of us right there
struggling in Jeff Vanderlou but we had that pride but look at this, this is why I say "strategically located" you had, at Carter Carburetor at that time, Coca Cola,464
01:09:33.660 --> 01:09:44.760
Rosalind Norman: you had major anchors like Sportsman's Park, you know which is
home of the Browns, you know the National Negro League Browns and the Cardinals Okay, so you got to think about this. New research465
01:09:44.790 --> 01:09:57.690
Rosalind Norman: by St. Louis University sociologists, okay, shows how back
then, in the 1950s, those years the city population peaked, Okay. Jeff Vanderlou, though, as you know is down to about 5000 people, largest numerical loss of any neighborhood466
01:09:57.690 --> 01:09:58.260
Rosalind Norman: in the city
467
01:09:58.530 --> 01:09:59.370
Rosalind Norman: to date,
468
01:09:59.610 --> 01:10:00.240
Rosalind Norman: so,
469
01:10:00.450 --> 01:10:07.380
Rosalind Norman: See you back then I watched that. I watched it with my eyes how
01:00:00that played out. "In the time it took for Jeff Vanderlou to470
01:10:08.190 --> 01:10:23.490
Rosalind Norman: lose 34,500 people, the city saw TEN mayors" there's the answer
to your question- "come and go." okay. Mayors! Ten! Each of them vowed to fight blight, that's- that's why this whole thing with mayor, you know, Jones will be interesting.471
01:10:23.760 --> 01:10:33.660
Rosalind Norman: "They vowed to fight blight and stop the exodus of residents,"
okay, so i'm just pointing it out, you know so it can again reinforce what i'm trying to get to472
01:10:34.830 --> 01:10:39.780
Rosalind Norman: you. Even though, you know, it sounds like i'm being very
emotional, i'm trying to give you some facts as well okay.473
01:10:41.250 --> 01:10:54.270
Jim Gass: Certainly.
Rosalind Norman: And when I say opportunity house, I mean that. All that we had
in place in Jeff Van- I know, Okay, I remember, even going to one of the small health clinics, I went to a dentist right there in that area.474
01:10:54.600 --> 01:11:11.280
Rosalind Norman: as a kid. We had Duvall Elementary School to walk- all our
schools were in walking distance, Duvall, Dunbar, you un- you understand this? 01:01:00You understand what i'm saying right across on Jefferson was a part of the area, we had St Bridgette's Catholic Church and Monsignor Shockley- Well he475
01:11:12.030 --> 01:11:29.070
Rosalind Norman: was Father Shockley back then, he's now a Monsignor, he was
very involved in what was going on in Jeff Vanderlou, see these names are now beginning to come back to me again, some of the people who were committed and helped that community to thrive, okay.476
01:11:30.450 --> 01:11:41.520
Rosalind Norman: and here it is! Remember I said Jeff Vanderlou was a national
model for Community-led redevelopment, that's the language they use now, the language we used to use was "urban" you know, redevelopment, okay.477
01:11:41.940 --> 01:11:50.910
Rosalind Norman: Or urban renewal okay, back in, you know the 80s and the 90s
Okay, but you can see right here, it says there, a national model for Community Redevleopment. It came from within.478
01:11:51.450 --> 01:12:09.390
Rosalind Norman: It was just like the whole push for the building of Vashon. It
came from within the community first, okay. Um so i'm hoping i'm giving you some information that you can use okay and other sources to you know to hopefully 01:02:00validate you know some of the remarks.479
01:12:10.530 --> 01:12:11.250
Jim Gass: Absolutely.
480
01:12:13.140 --> 01:12:22.470
Rosalind Norman: Is this helping at all?
Jim Gass: Oh yes, definitely, this is really- this is really tying together a
lot of what we have from our previous two interviews about the various sites and you know their role.481
01:12:23.070 --> 01:12:31.320
Jim Gass: In the Community over time, you know, we talked with one of our
interviewees quite a bit about how many doctors and dentists lived in Jeff Vanderlou when she was growing up482
01:12:32.400 --> 01:12:36.060
Jim Gass: uh, You know, how they worked in the various clinics, how likely they
were to do House calls, um,483
01:12:38.700 --> 01:12:39.150
Jim Gass: So, ah,
484
01:12:40.980 --> 01:12:43.320
Jim Gass: I did have a question, i'm trying to remember what it was.
485
01:12:47.820 --> 01:12:55.290
Jim Gass: So um...i'm going back to Macler Shepard was he in any sense,
motivated by the486
01:12:57.060 --> 01:13:08.640
Jim Gass: What they-welll you know- by what happened to Mill Creek Valley and by
01:03:00the exodus of people there, or from there to Jeff Vanderlou and other neighborhoods in North St Louis?Rosalind Norman: Can you still
487
01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:09.630
Rosalind Norman: see my screen?
488
01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:10.740
Jim Gass: Yes, yes, I can.
489
01:13:10.890 --> 01:13:23.400
Rosalind Norman: OK OK, so I think pro- Macler Shepard in starting Jeff
Vanderlou, Macler Shepard, of course, who was much older then me, he would probably be around my mom's age, all of them would have been in the same age group.490
01:13:24.630 --> 01:13:26.250
Rosalind Norman: which had he lived would probably be
491
01:13:26.280 --> 01:13:35.040
Rosalind Norman: pushing late eighties, Okay, but Helen Robinson, believe it or
not, she's still living there, she's what, 87 this year, I think? Anyway, and492
01:13:35.280 --> 01:13:36.120
Rosalind Norman: see, Helen
493
01:13:36.240 --> 01:13:38.520
Rosalind Norman: is the one in our video. She was the one to say,
494
01:13:38.580 --> 01:13:40.530
Rosalind Normanf: we went to you know.
495
01:13:40.650 --> 01:13:43.680
Rosalind Norman: Vashon was here at this site at Harris-Stowe, that was Helen.
496
01:13:44.010 --> 01:13:44.790
Rosalind Norman: and she's still living.
497
01:13:46.050 --> 01:13:47.640
Rosalind Norman: And she still has, I mean she's
498
01:13:47.670 --> 01:13:48.180
Rosalind Norman: got her
499
01:13:48.210 --> 01:13:48.540
Rosalind Norman: wit
500
01:13:48.570 --> 01:13:51.990
Rosalind Norman: And everything about her, and she gets around and she,
501
01:13:52.110 --> 01:13:53.160
Rosalind Norman: Oh man, she'd be another
502
01:13:53.190 --> 01:13:54.360
Rosalind Norman: person that you should talk with.
503
01:13:54.360 --> 01:14:01.560
Rosalind Norman: But anyway, this diverse history of Jeff Vanderlou, "Our new
neighborhood once known as this" so anyway, "across the street from all this," this is good 01:04:00504
01:14:01.710 --> 01:14:02.760
Rosalind Norman: for you to look at,
505
01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:03.480
Rosland Norman: the, uh, diverse
506
01:14:04.170 --> 01:14:04.590
Rosalind Norman: history of
507
01:14:05.550 --> 01:14:06.060
Rosalind Norman: Jeff Vanderlou
508
01:14:06.630 --> 01:14:11.160
Rosalind Norman: And that whole movement and you're right, there is a connection with
509
01:14:11.340 --> 01:14:11.880
Rosalind Norman: What went
510
01:14:11.910 --> 01:14:18.570
Rosalind Norman: On in Mill Creek 'cause why? Jeff Vanderlou sits right, right
there, think about it! Where Harris-Stowe is,511
01:14:19.140 --> 01:14:26.610
Rosalind Norman: is really, ah, part of that area that will be referred to as
the Mill Creek area, if we were to look at all...512
01:14:32.550 --> 01:14:33.030
Rosalind Norman:
513
01:14:40.380 --> 01:14:42.570
Rosalind Norman: Mill Creek...of St. Louis... and let's see, oh Norton.
514
01:14:46.230 --> 01:14:47.580
Rosalind Norman:
515
01:14:55.740 --> 01:14:59.730
Rosalind Norman: 'Cause you right, Okay, so there would have been a connection I
would think, 01:05:00516
01:15:03.240 --> 01:15:04.380
Rosalind Norman:
517
01:15:07.470 --> 01:15:17.640
Rosalind Norman: And if you do do mapping, you can see what I mean by how Jeff-
where Jeff Vanderlou is and Mill Creek would have been how they were right there,518
01:15:18.300 --> 01:15:27.000
Rosalind Norman: literally next to each other, so it makes sense that you would
have, you know, so many Black people who were pushed out and displaced when519
01:15:27.390 --> 01:15:35.670
Rosalind Norman: They went through and started to demolish you know those homes
in Mill Creek Valley area, you know it just makes sense to allow those you know,520
01:15:36.360 --> 01:15:49.560
Rosalind Norman: residents or individual families moved right into Jeff
Vanderlou because why? It's just like it's just literally just North of where Mill Creek Valley would have been, and these places like this one, the tenements,521
01:15:50.220 --> 01:16:04.800
Rosalind Norman: I literally grew up in something similar to that, okay that was
real to me when I told that i'm not sure I told you that, but the home and the way they were attached, and they were almost like what some people refer to as 01:06:00the sharp line,522
01:16:04.830 --> 01:16:06.480
Jim Gass: Yes.
Rosalind Norman: Okay.
523
01:16:06.960 --> 01:16:17.340
Rosalind Norman: And literally, you have, can you imagine families of you know,
four, five, six, eight, you know what I'm saying, live in a place like that, you know, literally people on top of each other, so, um,524
01:16:17.910 --> 01:16:26.820
Rosalind Norman: So i'm just saying, when Macler came along with you know the
concept of you know, looking at these places and, you know, literally525
01:16:28.830 --> 01:16:34.530
Rosalind Norman: Taking those brick structures and looking at them and saying,
Okay, you know, what can we do to make them more livable?526
01:16:34.920 --> 01:16:43.200
Rosalind Norman: Okay, think about that, you know, so you right, Mill Creek
Valley would have had a tremendous impact on what was happening in Jeff Vanderlou.527
01:16:43.530 --> 01:16:53.850
Rosalind Norman: Or what WOULD happen in Jeff Vanderlou, should I say that. And
then here from that "America's Divided City," that is another piece that you may want to look at and I think there's an528
01:16:55.770 --> 01:17:02.190
Rosalind Norman: Because I know the artist for that, ummm, what is it called...
"Divided City" 01:07:00529
01:17:04.650 --> 01:17:07.800
Rosalind Norman: ummmm, book, let me see this, the same one i'm thinking about.
530
01:17:09.840 --> 01:17:20.670
Rosalind Norman: Because the one that i'm thinking about would be talking about
St Louis, and I'm pretty sure the author's from St. Louis, because I know they have a lot of the same531
01:17:21.720 --> 01:17:24.630
Rosalind Norman: titles, if I can... see, I think, Mark
532
01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:27.390
Rosalind Norman: Abbot, 'cause he-I think it's his book because...Dr. Mark Abbott...divided...
533
01:17:34.350 --> 01:17:36.300
Jim Gass: it's not a real recent one, is it?
534
01:17:37.470 --> 01:17:40.770
Rosalind Norman: yeah fairly recent, it probably would have been out in the last
couple-yeah, here it is.535
01:17:41.790 --> 01:18:00.510
Rosalind Norman: Divided City 2022, it was two-it was Washington University
scholars and that's Mark Abbot, he used to work at Harris Stowe along with this Professor from Washington University, there it is, Segregation by Design, it's based on the Divided City Initiative, okay, but that's the name of it, oh man.536
01:18:00.780 --> 01:18:11.940
Rosalind Norman: Here it is, I mean, it's a lot that they cover in the Divided
01:08:00City, or Segregation by Design, so here it is, right here, okay.537
01:18:12.840 --> 01:18:24.090
Rosalind Norman: And yes, this is- it is a creative exchange, I know the person
that runs it, I met Mark Abbot, they did a whole exhibit on this,.538
01:18:24.930 --> 01:18:44.940
Rosalind Norman: I mean yeah this will help you too, because it's- it's-it's
just a lot of research going into that and it's looking at it, even though you're talking about architecture, talking about urban design and all that, but it gets you also into the history as well, Okay, they never cover539
01:18:46.380 --> 01:18:51.870
Rosalind Norman: The different neighborhoods such as Mill Creek valley, Jeff
Vanderlou, and all that okay so, um,540
01:18:53.580 --> 01:18:54.510
Rosalind Norman: yeah and you can just...see the top of that map or part of
it...let's see...541
01:18:59.730 --> 01:19:01.260
Rosalind Norman: SO it's called Segregation by Design.
01:09:00542
01:19:03.600 --> 01:19:05.100
Jim Gass: Okay. Um,
543
01:19:07.050 --> 01:19:13.110
Jim Gass: Talking about the ways in which what happened to Mill Creek might
resonate with people in Jeff Vand- or,544
01:19:14.370 --> 01:19:24.480
Jim Gass: People who then grew up in Jeff Vanderlou a generation later, do you
think the construction of I-70, kind of, you know, going through that neighborhood,545
01:19:24.990 --> 01:19:35.850
Jim Gass: Do you think that probably resonated in the same way with the
residents, just because of how many of their homes got cleared for a highway that sort of split the area- like North St Louis in half?546
01:19:36.690 --> 01:19:40.650
Rosalind Norman: Of course, you know even Lois Conley talks about that, because
she grew up in Val Creek,547
01:19:42.030 --> 01:19:44.760
Rosalind Norman: Well, in- let me get it right,
548
01:19:52.050 --> 01:20:06.990
Rosalind Norman:
549
01:20:08.160 --> 01:20:09.180
Rosalind Norman: Here we go.
550
01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:13.050
Rosalind Norman: Can you still see this?
551
01:20:14.100 --> 01:20:15.090
Jim Gass: Uh yes, yes I can.
552
01:20:15.570 --> 01:20:19.860
Rosalind Norman: Destroyer of the urban fabric of St Louis, "Many people know of
Robert Moses the urban planner who553
01:20:21.000 --> 01:20:32.970
Rosalind Norman: changed to city's landscape..." we were talking about that
earlier, "razing historic neighborhoods and constructing urban highways and large apartment buildings," Okay, well, he came to St. Louis, "many are unaware of his St. Louis contemporary" well, we were.554
01:20:34.380 --> 01:20:34.680
Rosalind Norman: That
555
01:20:36.060 --> 01:20:39.000
Rosalind Norman: This is an answer, maybe, to what you're talking about.
556
01:20:39.330 --> 01:20:43.890
Jim Gass: Yeah I just saw this article the other day ,I didn't- I didn't read
through the whole thing but.557
01:20:45.210 --> 01:20:51.450
Rosalind Norman: yeah yeah you're seeing- now you guys understand why I kept
saying Jeff Vanderlou is strategically located558
01:20:51.810 --> 01:20:52.380
Jim Gass: Yeah.
Rosalind Norman: To the plan
559
01:20:52.440 --> 01:21:08.550
Rosalind Norman: For the city of St. Louis because why? Right here, right here,
you see, "the man who brought him to St Louis was Luther" didn't I say, Ely 01:11:00Smith, "who would later be the man who envisioned the Arch grounds as a national park." In order for them to look at having, um,560
01:21:11.190 --> 01:21:23.400
Rosalind Norman: How can I say this, the riverfront okay to be an attraction to
the city of St Louis- Here's a map, Okay, think about what's happening now.561
01:21:24.060 --> 01:21:28.470
Rosalind Norman: Okay, but urban planning doesn't just look at the here and now.
562
01:21:29.190 --> 01:21:39.090
Rosalind Norman: True urban planning, which also remember I had been saying
this, they had been planning 50 and 75 years down the road okay into the future, okay they had to have that kind of vision.563
01:21:39.510 --> 01:21:46.350
Rosalind Norman: Okay, so if you think back to what time period you're looking
at, when you're looking at564
01:21:47.070 --> 01:21:56.760
Rosalind Norman: Probably what, the fact that he came to St. Louis in 1916, um,
"first full time urban planner, a position he held until 1950," you understand what I'm getting at565
01:21:57.240 --> 01:22:09.390
Rosalind Norman: getting ready to try to connect for you, is that this was years
01:12:00in the making, because why? Look at the map, they, you know, they wanted certain neighborhoods.566
01:22:10.140 --> 01:22:23.520
Rosalind Norman: You know, and when I say "they," those same people getting
that- I'm getting you right back to Civic Progress, those members of Civic Progress, they have specific plans and visions for the city of St Louis as a riverfront567
01:22:25.590 --> 01:22:36.930
Rosalind Norman: commerce area. Understand what i'm saying, that's why i'm
saying he who holds the purse holds the locus of power, money drives everything, you have elected officials, that's why I, to be honest with you.568
01:22:38.040 --> 01:22:48.840
Rosalind Norman: It will be surprising to see just how much the new mayor Jones
can get done, because why? President Biden, and his administration what?569
01:22:50.190 --> 01:22:50.880
Rosalind Norman: Just released how much money, and St. Louis got what? Was it
$500 Million?570
01:22:54.690 --> 01:22:56.160
Jim Gass: That sounds about right.
571
01:22:58.650 --> 01:23:07.200
Jim Gass: i'm not sure about how recently, but I know that.... I guess that's
01:13:00distinct from the money that the state has been sitting on for a little while.572
01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:09.480
Jim Gass: I don't know if I...
573
01:23:10.230 --> 01:23:11.430
Jim Gass: I don't know if I read that story.
574
01:23:12.240 --> 01:23:15.300
Rosalind Norman: What is it called, the American Rescue funds for St. Louis...
575
01:23:21.630 --> 01:23:21.870
Rosalind Norman: I'm trying to see if I can get this in here.
576
01:23:25.890 --> 01:23:26.400
Rosalind Norman: and see that's a maj- here it is.
577
01:23:27.930 --> 01:23:31.080
Rosalind Norman: Right here: "President Biden Announces American Rescue Plan,
St. Louis."578
01:23:32.670 --> 01:23:33.510
Rosalind Norman: Out of that plan,
579
01:23:35.010 --> 01:23:44.550
Rosalind Norman: I do believe we're looking at and see, Mayor Krewson made sure
she put certain things in place before she left, and I remember her name was on that with Civic Progress.580
01:23:44.790 --> 01:23:46.140
Jim Gass: Right, as an ex officio.
581
01:23:46.560 --> 01:23:56.550
Rosalind Norman: Yeah you got to remember somethings, got to- you can see, she
made sure, she purposfully did some things before she left office. Okay, so if we look at this.582
01:23:57.660 --> 01:24:02.880
Rosalind Norman: Okay, just quickly again, i'm just, you know, trying to get you
to understand if you go... 01:14:00583
01:24:04.200 --> 01:24:04.710
Rosalind Norman: Look how much St. Louis gets
584
01:24:06.360 --> 01:24:12.180
Rosalind Norman:
585
01:24:18.510 --> 01:24:18.690
Rosalind Norman: That's not what I wanted, go back...
586
01:24:22.830 --> 01:24:24.540
Rosalind Norman: Or investing because this may be important.
587
01:24:36.090 --> 01:24:36.900
Rosalind Norman: Oh okay, there we go.
588
01:24:38.460 --> 01:24:43.620
Rosalind Norman: This is what- 500 million, okay "the city is expected to
receive from Biden's American Rescue Plan,"589
01:24:44.760 --> 01:24:55.020
Rosalind Norman: uh, "is in direct financial assistance, the City of St. Louis
is expected to receive. Okay, so in a framework plan to be found online here, "Build Back a better St Louis."590
01:24:56.490 --> 01:25:06.060
Rosalind Norman: "is designed to serve as a starting point for considerations so
that the city can urgently move to deploy these transformations," anyway, "and 01:15:00those historic resources" but anyway um.591
01:25:06.960 --> 01:25:12.600
Jim Gass: $61 million for the housing crisis, 78 for various public safety initiatives...
592
01:25:13.620 --> 01:25:24.690
Rosalind Norman: There you go.
Jim Gass: Yes, yet 34 to address unemployment and small business, 80 million for
infrastructure yeah, 175 for office of general revenue.593
01:25:27.960 --> 01:25:31.770
Jim Gass: Yeah that's a lot of money, and I wonder how much of...
594
01:25:36.540 --> 01:25:39.180
Jim Gass: it's hard to understand those like- amount-
595
01:25:39.630 --> 01:25:44.100
Jim Gass: That- like those amounts of money, because just from
596
01:25:44.850 --> 01:26:03.720
Jim Gass: Like, my background includes like smaller grants of, you know, much
less, and you know those are those usually even at smaller amounts those require have a lot of stipulations attached to them for how they can use- be used, and I wonder if those same stipulations apply to these amounts 01:16:00597
01:26:05.250 --> 01:26:12.570
Jim Gass: Here...
Rosalind Norman: I would hope...
Jim Gass: In terms of like what the city can spend on infrastructure and stuff
or I wonder if it's more so, you know, just...598
01:26:13.680 --> 01:26:15.930
Jim Gass: Like, not to say it's a blank check, but if it...
599
01:26:18.930 --> 01:26:23.97
Jim Gass: Is- if it can just be spent in any public infrastructure or public
safety or the housing crisis.600
01:26:25.980 --> 01:26:35.580
Rosalind Norman: But look at this Okay, the very first bullet says 61 million,
to address the city's looming housing crisis including expanded services and shelters for the601
01:26:35.940 --> 01:26:42.870
Rosalind Norman: unhoused community which by the way, I am- I went to every day
and it breaks my heart, because I still see a majority of602
01:26:43.350 --> 01:26:58.980
Rosalind Norman: People of color, particularly black males, okay, various ages,
I'm talking about teens, all the way up to, you know, older black males right here, if I mean out my window, I can see them, you know, and you may want to call them homeless and now we saying unhoused.603
01:27:00.510 --> 01:27:12.000
Rosalind Norman: Okay, I see it, ok, I live it, they can come to try and build
01:17:00you know cuz I'm right here, in this area, and this concerns me, that very first bullet, okay "additional rental and mortgage assistance604
01:27:12.420 --> 01:27:30.270
Rosalind Norman: and expanding affordable housing. I've seen firsthand what
happened to Jeff Vanderlou when they start talking about- the Danforth Foundation was talking about, Oh we'll help put some money in there for housing. We'll see how this will play out, Okay, the first bullet. The second one you were getting into was looking at605
01:27:31.620 --> 01:27:45.360
Rosalind Norman: support for various public safety initiatives impacted by the
pandemic and what have you, city-owned vacant buildings to help repopulate neighborhoods and create home ownership opportunities. Some key words in there.606
01:27:46.140 --> 01:27:55.680
Rosalind Norman: So it's gonna be interesting, okay, i'm just putting it out
there for you, you know because if we're talking about what happened in the Mill Creek Valley,607
01:27:56.550 --> 01:28:06.960
Rosalind Norman: You know which when you look back, a lot of black folks had
migrated here from the South, you know, pretty much all, you know, how can I 01:18:00say, concentrated?608
01:28:07.380 --> 01:28:15.120
Rosalind Norman: In What, then, if you want to use the word "slum" or "ghetto"
okay, that's what, okay, so609
01:28:15.720 --> 01:28:26.370
Rosalind Norman: if you want to label it, that's what it would have been
labeled, Okay, then you see how they still were able to manage to make their area or you know, poor,610
01:28:27.030 --> 01:28:38.520
Rosalind Norman: incoming migrants from the South to still try to make it
livable and make it home, Okay. And then to have that demolished and then you have those who were able to what?611
01:28:39.270 --> 01:28:56.640
Rosalind Norman: Transition from there into Jeff Vanderlou, and watch how Jeff
Vanderlou just like, almost like what they did to Mill Creek but did it a little more covertly because why? Jeff Vanderlou had gained too much attention at a time, okay, when612
01:28:59.190 --> 01:29:09.420
Rosalind Norman: nationwide there was attention, back in the 60s and 70s, on
01:19:00model cities, urban renewal Okay, so they had to start it like, covertly613
01:29:09.420 --> 01:29:09.630
Jim Gass: Yeah.
614
01:29:09.990 --> 01:29:17.070
Rosalind Norman: You know, work, the urban, you know, design, you know that will
impact that area. I'm just being real with you so it's gonna be615
01:29:17.550 --> 01:29:33.090
Rosalind Norman: very very interesting to see how this plays out, see what
really happens to this money, because let me also tell you this, if you heard in that video Macler, I mean not Macler, but Mike McMillan he was alderman then, when they came into, um, ah,616
01:29:34.740 --> 01:29:46.740
Rosalind Norman: The plans for the building the new Vashon, he said $35 million,
did he not, that new Vashon High School was supposed to have a major football field, a tennis court, a swimming pool, all that stuff.617
01:29:46.830 --> 01:29:47.400
Jim Gass: Yeah.
Rosalind Norman: You go there now, do you see that?
618
01:29:47.850 --> 01:29:59.700
Rosalind Norman: No, so what happened to all that $35 million that was supposed
to have been invested in the building of the new Vashon and looking at where it is and what it looks like now.619
01:30:00.210 --> 01:30:10.950
Rosalind Norman: You know so i'm serious i'm very concerned about this kind of
01:20:00money and be, to be honest with you, 60-61 million's not a whole lot of money. I'm being very honest with you.620
01:30:10.950 --> 01:30:12.390
Rosalind Norman: Not in today's market.
621
01:30:14.730 --> 01:30:30.480
Rosalind Norman: I'm just being real, okay? um it's gonna be, again, a political
football Okay, because you talk about $500 million and even though you see how Lyda Krewson laid down her framework, you better believe622
01:30:32.070 --> 01:30:37.410
Rosalind Norman: Those tentacles are there from Civic Progress and how that's
going to be played out there623
01:30:38.460 --> 01:30:40.050
Rosalind Norman: So, even before Jones.
624
01:30:41.400 --> 01:30:50.220
Rosalind Norman: really has an opportunity to do anything, all this has already
been- I'll be honest with you, I'm willing to bet you it's already been accounted for.625
01:30:51.540 --> 01:30:52.290
Rosalind Norman: I'm just being honest.
626
01:30:54.210 --> 01:31:00.570
Jim Gass: Right, it's already been alotted. And I mean, I hope our project ends
up reflecting this but...627
01:31:02.370 --> 01:31:10.440
Jim Gass: Like the way we're talking about this about how it's kind of played
01:21:00out before like, it's all like history is not exactly repeating itself, but more so rhyming, I mean,628
01:31:10.680 --> 01:31:19.920
Jim Gass: to people in our profession, who are like paying attention to those
patterns like, they-it's like they're written in, you know,629
01:31:20.400 --> 01:31:41.700
Jim Gass: giant neon letters, you know, but that- but I wonder if that's
apparent to everybody who you know is look- who is looking into or who's looking into projects like the NGA and hoping that you know, this time it'll be different, in- in some way.630
01:31:42.810 --> 01:31:52.920
Jim Gass: I mean, I know the NGA campus is hopefully going to bring jobs to the
area, I think that's the reason given most frequently, do- do you see that happening, do you see631
01:31:54.600 --> 01:32:07.170
Jim Gass: Do you see people in the area, getting the chance to like, work at the
NGA campus and have someplace closer to home, as opposed to needing to like, 01:22:00commute out of the neighborhood for work?632
01:32:12.690 --> 01:32:15.000
Rosalind Norman: Ok, I'm glad youo brought that up. Let's look at the time,
because you said you had only alotted this for, until 1. Are you gonna have time?633
01:32:16.200 --> 01:32:16.500
Jim Gass: Yeah.
634
01:32:16.800 --> 01:32:23.580
Jim Gass: I think it just- I think it'll, let us keep going as far as I know,
i'm still recording it's not giving me any kind of notification, so I think we're good.635
01:32:24.420 --> 01:32:24.960
Rosalind Norman: Good.
Jim Gass: Now I
636
01:32:25.500 --> 01:32:25.860
Jim Gass: would like to hear your take on this.
637
01:32:27.360 --> 01:32:31.350
Rosalind Norman: I want to bring you into what i'm working on now, Okay, because.
638
01:32:32.460 --> 01:32:38.910
Rosalind Norman: I started Gateway GIS okay, Gateway GIS is part of, it means
what? Geographic Information System.639
01:32:39.240 --> 01:32:52.380
Rosalind Norman: But Gateway is bigger than just the gateway to St. Louis in the
Arch that we know, is a symbol for gateway to the West, okay, I look at it as- and you look at our logo, in fact, see, I can probably pull this up.640
01:32:54.330 --> 01:32:57.810
Rosalind Norman: Because I want to answer this...let see if I can
641
01:33:01.380 --> 01:33:03.690
Rosalind Norman: share, let me see if I
01:23:00642
01:33:08.070 --> 01:33:10.080
Rosalind Norman: Can... you see this right now with my desktop?
643
01:33:11.400 --> 01:33:15.330
Jim Gass: Ah, I see it but it's still on Norton safe search from what i'm seeing here.
644
01:33:15.780 --> 01:33:17.580
Rosalind Norman: Let me take it off, and then go back...
645
01:33:40.050 --> 01:33:41.430
Rosalind Norman: Because I want you to see something.
646
01:33:43.500 --> 01:33:45.180
Rosalind Norman: If I stop sharing...
647
01:33:46.530 --> 01:33:49.020
Rosalind Norman: Because I want to get to my desktop, okay.
648
01:33:52.080 --> 01:33:58.560
Rosalind Norman: because it's on my desktop, so you can understand what I'm
about to say about NGA and what i'm trying to do with Gateway GIS, okay so...649
01:33:59.730 --> 01:34:02.850
Rosalind Norman: If I can do that do I want to go to,
01:24:00650
01:34:02.940 --> 01:34:03.870
Rosalind Norman: This screen,
651
01:34:04.890 --> 01:34:06.180
Rosalind Norman: and see if I can share...
652
01:34:12.120 --> 01:34:14.400
Rosalind Norman: This not doing you can't see my desktop yet right?
653
01:34:15.510 --> 01:34:16.680
Jim Gass: I actually can now.
654
01:34:17.040 --> 01:34:21.420
Rosalind Norman: Okay, good okay now okay...
655
01:34:25.590 --> 01:34:28.140
Rosalind Norman: Go to Gateway GIS logo because the logo is what I was talking
about. And that'll656
01:34:30.390 --> 01:34:32.940
Rosalind Norman: bring you into- okay, that's our logo, Can you see it?
Jim Gass: Yeah, yeah I can.
657
01:34:35.010 --> 01:34:38.490
Rosalind Norman: That logo, look at it, you see the Arches, right?
658
01:34:38.940 --> 01:34:39.360
Jim Gass: Oh yeah, I can, now that you mention it.
659
01:34:41.610 --> 01:34:46.140
Rosalind Norman: Okay, that logo was created as a result of the logo design
contest for660
01:34:46.170 --> 01:34:47.250
Rosalind Norman: Young people, ages
661
01:34:47.310 --> 01:34:57.240
Rosalind Norman: 11 to 26, now, and it was two middle school kids who actually
were selected, you know out of the local design contest but what happened is that the volunteer662
01:34:57.540 --> 01:35:06.690
Rosalind Norman: For Gateway GIS, who was who was also a graphic designer well
as a creative director for his own organization, he volunteered and what he did, 01:25:00you know, he was the person that663
01:35:07.770 --> 01:35:18.390
Rosalind Norman: was responsible for you know, selecting you know the different
designs and coming up with a composite and then came up with this new design, based on what he saw, of interest, okay.664
01:35:18.870 --> 01:35:28.260
Rosalind Norman: And the kids, they get paid, you know there's like $500 cash
award, and we just paid it because I had one company and his company, they just you know decided they were paid, you know, the two kids.665
01:35:28.620 --> 01:35:34.920
Rosalind Norman: Okay, but they took this and his name is Mike Migano, he
finished up this design and so,666
01:35:35.880 --> 01:35:47.790
Rosalind Norman: You know, I just want to give you context, so the kids were
involved in the process, from day one, it was always intended that way, but if I can back you up a little bit Let me close this out, you still see my desktop right.667
01:35:48.720 --> 01:35:49.800
Jim Gass: Mhm.
Rosalind Norman: Okay, I want to bring up....
668
01:35:54.180 --> 01:35:55.260
Rosalind Norman: I'm gonna bring up my....Oh let me bring this up.
669
01:35:59.130 --> 01:36:05.610
Rosalind Norman: Article about Giving Jazz we kicked off in May of 2019, Okay, the
01:26:00670
01:36:06.150 --> 01:36:16.320
Rosalind Norman: We have been featured on the St. Louis Public Radio and then
this article was done by the reporter for that, you saw high school students to get instruction on the Hatfield geospatial training, okay.671
01:36:16.920 --> 01:36:28.770
Rosalind Norman: Okay, here it is the national geospatial Intelligence Agency,
the service, one of the collaborators of Gateway GIS through the NGA partners communication program which the agency has, okay.672
01:36:29.010 --> 01:36:29.520
Rosalind Norman: And, yes.
673
01:36:29.700 --> 01:36:44.250
Rosalind Norman: They did meet with us, but here, very important for you to
understand the purpose of Gateway GIS. It's a volunteer program that means i've traded, this initiative is volunteer-driven, okay.674
01:36:44.430 --> 01:36:48.900
Rosalind Norman: But it's providing what? Our kids and the neighborhood where I
grew up,675
01:36:49.950 --> 01:36:55.470
Rosalind Norman: Jeff Vanderlou and throughout North St. Louis, okay our kids
and I chose what?676
01:36:55.530 --> 01:36:59.310
Rosalind Norman: Clyde C. Miller, and you know, Career Academy, which is right
there, up the street from677
01:37:00.780 --> 01:37:14.430
Rosalind Norman: Where they tore down the Vashon I went to and built the new
01:27:00career academy when a corner of Grand and Bell okay so i'm working with that school and I referred to that early on in our conversation, but my focus is what?678
01:37:15.000 --> 01:37:25.050
Rosalind Norman: Providing students, not just there at Clyde C. Miller, it's
much bigger than that now, free science, arts, and math education, along with emphasis on geospatial technology.679
01:37:25.560 --> 01:37:40.740
Rosalind Norman: Why? Okay, here we go, we also tutor and we're helping K
through 12, it's now pre K through 12 students in science, technology, engineering arts, and mathematics, which is you know, which is the umbrella for the acronym's theme okay.680
01:37:42.330 --> 01:37:59.520
Rosalind Norman: let's go on and, of course, what i'm doing is what focusing on
geospatial technology, which is in time with location based services and mapping, that is what the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency is all about OK? now.681
01:38:00.750 --> 01:38:13.020
Rosalind Norman: Go on, and go on further down, here it is. Organizing, meaning,
01:28:00you know those people who are working with me as part of this, you know and again it's coming from the Community, because why? My-682
01:38:14.130 --> 01:38:15.690
Rosalind Norman: How can I say it, oh.
683
01:38:17.190 --> 01:38:25.110
Rosalind Norman: My light bulb or Aha moment is when I was driving to the
neighborhood and I kept saying wait a minute, they finally made an agreement,684
01:38:25.950 --> 01:38:37.380
Rosalind Norman: To do something with this land that's been vacant all these
years, we watched while, you know, while I was growing up different houses slowly being blighted and then all the land where Pruitt Igoe used to be.685
01:38:38.100 --> 01:38:47.910
Rosalind Norman: Well I said you know so many other organizations were turned
down, why? because of the amount of power that Civic Progress, made the plans the plans for686
01:38:48.720 --> 01:38:58.740
Rosalind Norman: you know urban development, for what, destitute areas which
included Jeff Vanderlou, Okay, so let me go on and show you this paragraph, it says,687
01:38:59.310 --> 01:39:11.430
Rosalind Norman: You know high emphasis on what? Services and what? Low income
01:29:00communities by introducing them to technologies and skills needed within the geospatial industry. Now yes, NGA is688
01:39:12.990 --> 01:39:17.550
Rosalind Norman: A catalyst because why? You're looking at close to what, $1.75,
you might as well say,689
01:39:17.790 --> 01:39:25.140
Rosalind Norman: 2 billion, you know project just for construction we're not
about what's going on inside the building, once they get the new building up, but you talking about690
01:39:25.380 --> 01:39:31.890
Rosalind Norman: You know, the national geospatial Intelligence Agency, They're
part of the intelligence community so you know they're gonna spend some money on the latest691
01:39:32.130 --> 01:39:42.210
Rosalind Norman: Technology, you know, equipment, you name it, to put inside. We
just talked about the construction of it, okay so just even thinking about that, Okay, you need to have692
01:39:42.780 --> 01:39:55.740
Rosalind Norman: Our people from that area, you know who have been left behind
in our public school system that has not been adequately supported, or have the necessary resources to prepare them. Now you see where i'm going to go with this. Gateway GIS.693
01:39:56.910 --> 01:40:02.520
Rosalind Norman: Okay, I want to explain and the very next paragraph, can you
read it? You see what i'm saying this next paragraph? 01:30:00694
01:40:04.350 --> 01:40:08.580
Jim Gass: It does.
Rosalind Norman: What did I say? See it?
Jim Gass: Yeah.
Rosalind Norman: Can you read it out loud?
695
01:40:08.910 --> 01:40:21.210
Jim Gass: yeah it's '"it just makes sense if we're talking about dealing with
young people who have not had the resources, like others, to be able to be marketable in today's technology," said gateway guess organizer Rosalind Norman.'Rosalind Norman: Right.
696
01:40:24.990 --> 01:40:25.320
Rosalind Norman: Right.
697
01:40:26.910 --> 01:40:28.050
Rosalind Norman: And then I go on and say what, a five year roll-out, right? And
then I identify Clyde C. Miller Career Academy698
01:40:31.230 --> 01:40:39.000
Rosalind Norman: would be the first to participate, okay, and then I go on to
say, here. Read that short right there where it says education.699
01:40:39.630 --> 01:40:47.520
Jim Gass: "Having education and preparing them so they can be ready for a career
opportunity or an entrepreneurial opportunity is very important, Norman said."700
01:40:49.350 --> 01:40:51.870
Rosalind Norman: Now, go to this last paragraph on this page. Look, read that.
701
01:40:54.270 --> 01:41:03.720
Jim Gass: Yet students will also go through extensive training in the classroom
utilizing software used by professional agencies such as the National Geospatial 01:31:00Intelligence Agency.702
01:41:06.000 --> 01:41:07.290
Rosalind Norman: And look at that, we have the software. And one of the initial
champions and703
01:41:08.340 --> 01:41:11.970
Rosalind Norman: collaborators for Gateway GIS, here. He's a volunteer, that's
his name.704
01:41:13.710 --> 01:41:15.600
Rosalind Norman: You can read that, I want you to- I want you to see, Gateway
GIS, we're705
01:41:16.920 --> 01:41:18.690
Rosalind Norman: working with a lot of stakeholders so go ahead read that paragraph.
706
01:41:19.770 --> 01:41:32.850
Jim Gass: Yeah, "One of the volunteers, Sekhar Prabhakar, of the US Geospatial
Intelligence Foundation St Louis Area Working Group said careers in geospatial location based services will only become more important in the future."Rosalind Norman: Ok, keep going.
707
01:41:35.100 --> 01:41:45.090
Jim Gass: Yeah '"There's going to be a lot of energy that has to be put into the
sector, and I think it is the perfect time because location based services are gaining so much importance," Prabhakar said.'Rosalind Norman: Ok and you can see what I said after that?
708
01:41:48.870 --> 01:42:02.790
Jim Gass: "Norman said she expects the program to expand to other schools over
the next few years. The first seminar will take place Saturday at the National Blues Museum. Classes at Clyde see Miller career Academy High School will begin 01:32:00in the Fall."709
01:42:02.910 --> 01:42:07.170
Rosalind Norman: And it did, we've been on point Okay, you know. I'm not trying
to brag i'm just710
01:42:07.170 --> 01:42:07.470
Rosalind Norman: Saying.
711
01:42:08.850 --> 01:42:09.030
Jim Gass:
Rosalind Norman: that's what I do.
712
01:42:10.740 --> 01:42:23.250
Rosalind Norman: Just so you can understand, we get paid to do this because why?
I grew up in Jeff Vanderlou, I'm watching them build the new National Geospatial Intelligence Agency West Headquarters right there right okay i've watched people get, um.713
01:42:24.330 --> 01:42:26.250
Rosalind Norman: Displaced, because of
714
01:42:26.760 --> 01:42:30.360
Rosalind Norman: The drive to blight a lot of those
715
01:42:31.680 --> 01:42:40.740
Rosalind Norman: houses or there were homes and other organizations, they had
different kinds of small businesses in the area for years, you can say, in a way,716
01:42:41.820 --> 01:42:50.040
Rosalind Norman: It was through that realization that you know what? I can't you
know, sit on the sidelines and watch717
01:42:51.180 --> 01:43:00.330
Rosalind Norman: To build it up, this major institution and you know, agency and
they're talking about all this money they're bringing into this area, without718
01:43:01.140 --> 01:43:09.390
Rosalind Norman: You know, trying to reach back and help young people and and
01:33:00people that still may live in a Community I grew up in and I live nearby now.719
01:43:09.990 --> 01:43:24.510
Rosalind Norman: Help them to prepare, so they can be a part of and to be
included because it's good for all these different agencies and companies to talk about you know that they're going to help you know, try to diversify and include people of color.720
01:43:25.050 --> 01:43:31.350
Rosalind Norman: But is it really real you can say anything, you can make your
mouth say anything right and I know this from experience.721
01:43:32.580 --> 01:43:36.390
Rosalind Norman: The, what is it, the truth is in the pudding, God is in the detail?
722
01:43:37.200 --> 01:43:39.060
Rosalind Norman: I want to see action and if
723
01:43:39.150 --> 01:43:41.490
Rosalind Norman: i'm going to want to see action what's the saying,
724
01:43:42.900 --> 01:43:48.390
Rosalind Norman: If you want to see change be the change, you want to see, okay,
that's where i'm coming from.725
01:43:48.750 --> 01:44:04.200
Rosalind Norman: So i'm gonna get paid because this is a labor of love, but I
have been so blessed because why? I've been able to bring in a lot of different collaborators and they understand, I'm not asking them to write checks, I'm 01:34:00asking for people to what?726
01:44:05.220 --> 01:44:09.630
Rosalind Norman: Give back to this Community, okay, and we're talking about
North St. Louis, okay,727
01:44:09.660 --> 01:44:10.950
Jim Gass: Jeff Vanderlou, and all the other communities surrounding
728
01:44:10.950 --> 01:44:14.400
Rosalind Norman: where NGA west campus is being built, okay.
729
01:44:15.690 --> 01:44:20.280
Rosalind Norman: And I was gonna pull up just something quickly, see,
730
01:44:21.840 --> 01:44:22.710
Rosalind Norman: If I can find it...
731
01:44:24.150 --> 01:44:26.040
Rosalind Norman: My- my- you can still see my desktop right?
732
01:44:28.530 --> 01:44:28.950
Jim Gass: I can.
Rosalind Norman: Okay.
733
01:44:30.630 --> 01:44:31.290
Rosalind Norman: Let me see if I can find..
734
01:44:32.820 --> 01:44:46.080
Rosalind Norman: Okay, here we go Okay, so when we kicked off the kickoff was in
May 2019, it took a whole year before that to plan for people go through training, train and use a new software, they were able to get an agreement with ESRI,735
01:44:46.350 --> 01:44:57.420
Rosalind Norman: The company that provides the same software for NGA, with our
kids, you know their, their teachers and different organizations and university representatives, including a couple representatives from UM St. Louis736
01:44:58.050 --> 01:45:07.590
Rosalind Norman: was included and we're trying to train them with ESRI, the
01:35:00international company that develops the software right? The locator services. Okay so,737
01:45:08.070 --> 01:45:15.510
Rosalind Norman: We finished our first year Okay, which would have been 2019 to
2020, right, we started as you see here May 2019.738
01:45:16.050 --> 01:45:28.410
Rosalind Norman: Okay, you see, some of the language is still here okay now you
see how we have to adjust the language, because why? What we're looking at is workforce development for under-resourced, underrepresented pre-school to 12th grade students okay?739
01:45:29.040 --> 01:45:34.920
Rosalind Norman: Services provided free of charge and here it is, this is part
of our740
01:45:34.980 --> 01:45:36.870
Rosalind Norman: Education Community Members, you see this?
741
01:45:36.990 --> 01:45:43.410
Rosalind Norman: Very important, as a model it's based on giving back in time,
talent and resources, can you please-getting you to interact a little bit-742
01:45:45.330 --> 01:45:49.050
Rosalind Norman: read what you see on this page, "Model, Philosophy and
Mission," this is very important.743
01:45:50.910 --> 01:46:01.350
Jim Gass: Motto is "Act locally, think globally," philosophy is, quote, to
develop a complete mind, study the science of art, study the art of science, learn how to see. 01:36:00744
01:46:01.680 --> 01:46:12.660
Jim Gass: "Realize that everything connects to everything else" endquote
Leonardo da Vinci, and for mission, it says bridging the digital, geographic, cultural, racial, and economic divide.745
01:46:14.430 --> 01:46:14.850
Rosalind Norman: So.
746
01:46:15.360 --> 01:46:16.320
Rosalind Norman: In answer to your,
747
01:46:16.470 --> 01:46:25.620
Rosalind Norman: You know your question here, the activities we accomplished,
just in the first year okay, literally within the Train the Trainer sessions with teachers to Community partners, I want, I want you to see748
01:46:25.950 --> 01:46:33.870
Rosalind Norman: This is again about where i'm coming from, and I feel that i've
been blessed because I did live in and I saw with my own eyes749
01:46:34.200 --> 01:46:46.830
Rosalind Norman: how Macler operated, how Norman Seay operated, I got a chance
to see him and work with Katherine Nelson, you know, she guided me as a major educator, you know she was also featured in the video, by the way,750
01:46:47.730 --> 01:46:57.840
Rosalind Norman: That you saw. You know, I have some wonderful role models. I
interfaced with and met Congressman William L., you know, L. Clay when he was even up on Capitol Hill, he wanted to basically invest in some of the751
01:46:57.840 --> 01:46:59.190
Rosalind Norman: Projects i've worked on the Community.
752
01:46:59.250 --> 01:47:00.900
Rosalind Norman: So my
01:37:00753
01:47:02.190 --> 01:47:17.970
Rosalind Norman: Regular work with Gateway GIS is about you know, truely
engaging, involving, including members of a marginalized community, and particularly the communities in North St. Louis. I'm just being real that you, Okay, and so.754
01:47:18.000 --> 01:47:20.790
Rosalind Norman: This is what this is about, this is what we accomplished, okay.
755
01:47:21.000 --> 01:47:29.010
Rosalind Norman: We have seminars all over the place, with different businesses
and institutions and universities, you know you name it, we had internships and mentoring set in place.756
01:47:29.310 --> 01:47:39.870
Rosalind Norman: We had 20 about high school seniors just the first year from
Clyde that you know were able to receive paid internships, as well as- here it is, it breaks it down, 16 received academic757
01:47:40.260 --> 01:47:48.060
Rosalind Norman: internships, as, you know, opportunities and there were two
that were actually right off the bat in the fall or that same right after the kickoff last758
01:47:48.840 --> 01:47:53.460
Rosalind Norman: few months after we kicked off, we had two who received paid
internships right away.759
01:47:53.880 --> 01:48:07.620
Rosalind Norman: And so out of the 20 okay that we started with at Clyde, and in
the Spring we continued to get acceptance, for some of those seniors in two of 01:38:00you know, major programs like right there at University of Missouri in the information systems and technology Program.760
01:48:08.340 --> 01:48:15.120
Rosalind Norman: Some of them wanted to move on to cyber security programs why?
because we were exposing them to the fact that hey you need these skill sets.761
01:48:15.480 --> 01:48:21.420
Rosalind Norman: And we were able to get that you know, the students really
started with seniors and juniors at Clyde okay so that's another reason why.762
01:48:22.110 --> 01:48:30.240
Rosalind Norman: We work very hard with them, and make sure, you know, to
continue. We're now, you know, in COVID that we had to do some things virtually because we have to accelerate763
01:48:30.600 --> 01:48:34.950
Rosalind Norman: some of our projects into the virtual environment, but you can
see, even here,764
01:48:35.850 --> 01:48:45.780
Rosalind Norman: We, you know we're, we're doing things, Okay, this is not about
me just doing a photo op or a show-and-tell, these have to be, these are the hands-on projects, real world projects.765
01:48:46.140 --> 01:48:51.570
Rosalind Norman: But we're starting that project, Clyde started on it, it was
based on a project out of East LA, uh766
01:48:52.200 --> 01:49:03.060
Rosalind Norman: That works with the ESRI software and it showed Mexican
Americans in that high school out there and the research, they did in the area of social justice. I'm serious, be the kind of things we're doing. 01:39:00767
01:49:03.600 --> 01:49:14.730
Rosalind Norman: We were fortunate to you know to collaborate the Pulitzers Arts
Foundation and get information from the Monument Lab Initiative, as well as collect data from the Missouri Historical Society which, by the768
01:49:15.090 --> 01:49:20.070
Rosalind Norman: way they're going to work with us on an internship for next
year, because of COVID, we had to shift some things around.769
01:49:20.670 --> 01:49:24.030
Rosalind Norman: The Archaeological Research Center oh man that report, that's over
770
01:49:24.450 --> 01:49:32.580
Rosalind Norman: A couple hundred pages, but all these people are giving us all
this information, so we can do our own Gateway GIS story map project and guess what.771
01:49:32.880 --> 01:49:38.850
Rosalind Norman: You started with, you know, started with Jeff Vanderlou, we'll
do that and Macler and I'll do the history and actually produce772
01:49:39.270 --> 01:49:55.350
Rosalind Norman: maps using the software, Okay, and the kids will look at what
was there and what's missing now, so it becomes a little bit of social justice alone with economic, okay, equity issues and then we'll move from Jeff Vanderlou to other773
01:49:56.430 --> 01:49:59.490
Rosalind Norman: nearby neighborhoods that surround where the building the new
774
01:49:59.490 --> 01:50:00.270
Rosalind Norman: NGA West
775
01:50:00.870 --> 01:50:07.830
Rosalind Norman: campus Okay, and then the other project we already working on,
01:40:00and in fact we have an unveiling set for this Monday, First Banner776
01:50:08.640 --> 01:50:23.100
Rosalind Norman: And again started with Jeff Vanderlou. The Gateway GIS
neighborhood banner project and that's being conducted, guess what, with the Boys and Girls Club in St. Louis and we started with the Teen Tech Center and777
01:50:23.280 --> 01:50:30.720
Rosalind Norman: You saw that and some information, so we already started that
and guess what? That's a collaborative project with what? The Contemporary Art Museum of778
01:50:30.990 --> 01:50:41.130
Rosalind Norman: St Louis which is right there Grand Center Arts District on
specific Okay, and yes, there are what, just south of the Delmar Divide, so we are trying to bridge the Delmar Divide, that779
01:50:41.490 --> 01:50:48.690
Rosalind Norman: was what, getting stakeholders from these other areas to what,
volunteer and give their time talents and resources to what we're doing.780
01:50:49.020 --> 01:51:06.120
Rosalind Norman: That project has now- in fact when we unveiled the first banner
the kids worked on, during COVID, when it all was set back, the kids learned online how to use software from the Adobe suites like Illustrator and Photoshop 01:41:00to develop the first banner, which is going to depict781
01:51:07.410 --> 01:51:21.540
Rosalind Norman: ah, Cool Papa Bell, okay on the first banner from Jeff
Vanderlou, okay that's going to be unveiled on Monday Okay, then we'll continue to- we're branching out we're including the students from Vashon, as well as we including782
01:51:22.050 --> 01:51:34.920
Rosalind Norman: Some more students from Clyde, in addition to the Boys and
Girls Club, and we're talking about Cardinal Ritter, because you're looking at this area it's like a one mile area, you know radius, you know that will be surrounding NGA, you talking about the Gateway783
01:51:36.120 --> 01:51:45.600
Rosalind Norman: Middle School, so i'm just talking about the fact that it's
expanding, so we can get a total of eight banners because there's eight communities, that are predominantly784
01:51:46.320 --> 01:51:54.960
Rosalind Norman: marginalized communities of people of color, Okay, particularly
Black people, and we want to what? Visually give voice,785
01:51:55.830 --> 01:52:04.410
Rosalind Norman: To the contributions of the real heroes from the past, present
01:42:00and future of those eight communities on those banners.786
01:52:04.770 --> 01:52:13.200
Rosalind Norman: OK, so those that banner project is a major undertaking and you
see it here, it says each of the eight neighborhoods surround the NGA West campus in North St. Louis so.787
01:52:14.130 --> 01:52:22.020
Rosalind Norman: that's what we're going to install there so it's like a good
opportunity for us to say, you not gonna forget us, Okay, because we're putting these banners up and788
01:52:22.350 --> 01:52:34.410
Rosalind Norman: i'm working in and had been working with the City of St. Louis
and the two Aldermen whose wards will be impacted by the work of the students and young people from the Communities,789
01:52:35.070 --> 01:52:52.380
Rosalind Norman: that's involved, but also for installation okay and maintenance
of those banners just so you know, will be, I'm gonna wait till all eight are done and then I want all eight to be installed, and then according to my understanding verbally, because you know with them with elected officials,790
01:52:54.000 --> 01:53:04.590
Rosalind Norman: that they wanted, that the elected officials, they were talking
about is Brandon Bosley for being you know Ward 3, which includes Jeff 01:43:00Vanderlou, and we're looking at.791
01:53:05.250 --> 01:53:13.500
Rosalind Norman: Ward 19, which is Alderwoman Marlene Davis, and that includes
where St. Louis University is, South Grand, also the Grand Center Arts District,792
01:53:13.800 --> 01:53:27.900
Rosalind Norman: So, working with them, and particularly with Brandon because
Brandon was the one to say, Roz, just, you know just installing all those banners, you're gonna line them up on Jefferson, write a post, from where the NGA West, you know793
01:53:28.350 --> 01:53:42.480
Rosalind Norman: headquarters would be, okay, so we're gonna start at the corner
of Class and go from Cass and Jefferson and go South to Martin Luther King Drive, okay and we'll have those banners installed on those light Poles that you know, going from794
01:53:43.410 --> 01:53:48.480
Rosalind Norman: Cass and Jefferson, only down to Jefferson and Martin Luther
King Drive, okay.795
01:53:49.320 --> 01:53:55.290
Rosalind Norman: that's the goal and we're looking at it, it looks like now
we're looking at probably not having it installed until next Spring but that's okay!796
01:53:55.710 --> 01:54:04.590
Rosalind Norman: As long as the kids get the necessary skill set from learning
how to do graphic design, at same time they learn how to research their communities, 01:44:00797
01:54:04.920 --> 01:54:16.500
Rosalind Norman: And they'll learn how to visually capture you know who or what
hero from the past, present you know the future represents each of those in human nature, does that make sense?798
01:54:16.770 --> 01:54:17.160
Rosalind Norman: Okay?
799
01:54:18.330 --> 01:54:28.710
Rosalind Norman: that's the life, that's- that's- that's- that's what's being
done right now. Resurrecting a Community, I had to modify that but working with, here it is, Dr. Lara Kelland,800
01:54:28.830 --> 01:54:30.150
Rosalind Norman: which is how you got in touch with me,
801
01:54:30.720 --> 01:54:40.500
Jim Gass: Yep.
Rosalind Norman: We're you know it's a way of still getting it done without me
having to come in, because I really have to propose a new course, but I proposed it as a new course,802
01:54:40.860 --> 01:54:45.720
Rosalind Norman: For the honors college, but when I was talking to Dr Lara
Kelland, when I was doing it,803
01:54:46.050 --> 01:54:53.550
Rosalind Norman: You know, then you know she's still new to the area, but now I
see that she's able to you know to carry over and do this, so I feel, pleased804
01:54:53.850 --> 01:55:00.570
Rosalind Norman: Even though I didn't get the approval for the new course, but
she's able to pick up some of that, just like what you working on, so that means805
01:55:00.990 --> 01:55:12.510
Rosalind Norman: You see, the title there, Resurrecting the Community, I am
01:45:00about that, okay, and I'm looking at stories of creativity too, because within our Community I don't want us to continually be left806
01:55:13.380 --> 01:55:27.870
Rosalind Norman: Behind or left out of what's happening in the history of St.
Louis, you know, I'm just being real, okay just take our organization doing just our first year, look at our roll out, look at this. Impressive? Some of those things are807
01:55:28.950 --> 01:55:42.750
Rosalind Norman: associated with Civic Progress, Okay, we have- Our kids have
visited or had different people come in, to mentor or do presentations or offer internships, or you know, or help in different ways.808
01:55:43.830 --> 01:55:55.380
Rosalind Norman: It's this this list, you know I mean we real, I mean we came
from very interesting kinds of associations, so just take a closer look, we've had809
01:55:56.280 --> 01:56:06.810
Rosalind Norman: The youngest Black satellite engineer for NASA on our our
virtual presentation last summer, through our, uh, through our zoom, we do a monthly 01:46:00810
01:56:07.620 --> 01:56:14.460
Rosalind Norman: type of virtual presentation and each month we feature
different people, so that's what you see when you're looking at this lineup, you're looking at811
01:56:14.730 --> 01:56:21.780
Rosalind Norman: All these organizations, participating in different capacities,
okay, for what we're trying to begin with GIS, Okay, just so you can see this.812
01:56:22.110 --> 01:56:38.310
Rosalind Norman: We even had someone from California group from the company
Viasat, which is a satellite company, okay so i'm saying this, of course, it's a lot going on, Okay, and you can imagine, this has pretty much turned into a full-ime project for me, but that's Okay, because813
01:56:39.990 --> 01:56:41.160
Rosalind Norman: It keeps
814
01:56:42.480 --> 01:56:57.330
Rosalind Norman: The historical and cultural, artistic and even scientific
contributions of people from that area that's referred to as North St. Louis, if it keeps that out front about what's good,815
01:56:57.960 --> 01:57:09.000
Rosalind Norman: We can counter all the negativity that we see in the media
01:47:00about all the killings and you know, and all the other stuff, in regards to crime that they tend to want to816
01:57:09.330 --> 01:57:23.550
Rosalind Norman: push out there, the media, and draw on, and you know, create
this whole culture of fear okay, so it's like in a way,Gateway GIS is countering this OK, because we'll make sure our kids and community is involved and to make sure that they understand they need817
01:57:23.940 --> 01:57:28.890
Rosalind Norman: To have skills that are related to not just the spatial
technology, that's818
01:57:29.460 --> 01:57:43.410
Rosalind Norman: going to be the driving force for what's going to be moving
NGA, but I want them to be prepared, not just working NGA, but for all the other companies and even entrepreneurial opportunities that are going to open up because why?819
01:57:43.860 --> 01:57:53.010
Rosalind Norman: When you start dealing with geospatial technology you're
dealing with locator services, anytime you pick up your phone, you are dealing with locator services, who deal with GPS.820
01:57:53.340 --> 01:58:05.700
Rosalind Norman: GPS is what, Global Positioning System Global Positioning
System, GPS is a part of geospatial technology okay it's locator services and 01:48:00it's all around us Okay, but821
01:58:06.480 --> 01:58:15.420
Rosalind Norman: it's bigger than that. In order to see how that technology is
able to work in aviation, or in, you know,822
01:58:15.930 --> 01:58:23.760
Rosalind Norman: space travel, or with satellites, or even in our cars,
especially the newer cars that rely on GPS.823
01:58:24.240 --> 01:58:40.560
Rosalind Norman: And definitely, with the self driving cars, definitely depend
on it. You have to understand, the role artificial intelligence, machine learning, internet and things, those are the emerging technologies that are to me very much a part of this as well for our kids.824
01:58:40.980 --> 01:58:41.580
Rosalind Norman: Our kids
825
01:58:41.760 --> 01:58:51.720
Rosalind Norman: have been left behind and under-resourced for so long, they
need a jumpstart now, because there's no way they can ever catch up, not with the limited resources that they have, or the lack therof.826
01:58:52.050 --> 01:59:01.260
Rosalind Norman: Okay, so that's something that we definitely push for and
nothing i'm working on right now, with these elected officials, oka,y and I'm, you know, carefully trying to827
01:59:02.070 --> 01:59:09.660
Rosalind Norman: Get you to understand that, it's been an interesting kind of
01:49:00relationship, and I been dealing with this for a number of years, as you saw in 1999,828
01:59:10.290 --> 01:59:28.020
Rosalind Norman: dealing with elected officials back then, and the stakeholders,
but this last piece here is the GIS innovation corridor, okay, that's major Okay, I want to, and I did it, I already closed this, almost a year, working back and forth between, you know, City Hall.829
01:59:29.040 --> 01:59:37.680
Rosalind Norman: You know, even with the different alderwomen, Davis, and all
the aldermen, Bosler, now with the new alderman, James page for Ward 5,830
01:59:38.610 --> 01:59:49.950
Rosalind Norman: trying to get them to work with Gateway GIS, and collaborate
with Community partners, to name the GIS Innovation Corridor, in honor of Captain Wendell O. Pruitt.831
01:59:50.370 --> 01:59:59.940
Rosalind Norman: A native St. Louisan, Sumner High School graduate, Tuskegee
Airman, and an African American fighter pilot in World War Two, Okay, he grew up in the832
02:00:00.750 --> 02:00:10.290
Rosalind Norman: Ville. Next door to JVL. Now you see what I'm doing? You know
01:50:00it's like saying, I want to make sure Gateway GIS,833
02:00:10.890 --> 02:00:23.640
Rosalind Norman: We work at this as a community building initiative that
supports, you know, our young people from preschool through 12th grade and also into college834
02:00:24.120 --> 02:00:41.400
Rosalind Norman: and also to their careers and entrepreneurial pursuits, but my
mind, keep in mind, that, in order to do this, we need to build a support that, within our community, which means educating our community, too, about what's going on and, at the same time, preserving835
02:00:42.420 --> 02:00:52.710
Rosalind Norman: what's good about you know, our, you know our past, present and
looking towards the future. So you have my, you know little spiel about GIS, do you see the connection?836
02:00:53.610 --> 02:01:12.990
Rosalind Norman: With why, you know,the NGA is to me a catalyst, but at same
time, having grown up in Jeff Vanderlou, and living nearby now, I just want to 01:51:00be sure that we're not forgotten, and that we're not, you know, just completely, you know,837
02:01:14.340 --> 02:01:17.250
Rosalind Norman: written off, you know, I just don't want to see that happen.
You know, did I answer your question?838
02:01:20.370 --> 02:01:22.140
Jim Gass: Yes, yes, absolutely, that
839
02:01:23.190 --> 02:01:23.580
Jim Gass: Is a...
840
02:01:24.630 --> 02:01:32.070
Jim Gass: That is an undertaking right there, but that is extremely impressive,
you know i've worked with, like, state and federal jobs programs before, trying to841
02:01:32.580 --> 02:01:38.910
Jim Gass: bring jobs to rural areas that are under-resourced, and the way in
which this is the opposite, in which it's,842
02:01:39.390 --> 02:01:56.730
Jim Gass: it's coming from the ground up, it's coming from within the Community
is just incredibly impressive to me so that yes, that answered my question about how well the kids in the Community will possibly be able to get employment with the NGA site and-843
02:01:57.000 --> 02:01:57.720
Rosalind Norman: and it's not NGA.
844
02:01:58.410 --> 02:02:01.080
Jim Gass: yeah or, or, or elsewhere, or elsewhere.
845
02:02:01.590 --> 02:02:03.240
Rosalind Norman: Because, let me explain, the NGA is a
01:52:00846
02:02:04.350 --> 02:02:05.190
Rosalind Norman: National...
847
02:02:07.500 --> 02:02:18.600
Rosalind Norman: intelligence agency, think about that. Their clearance process
and be over a year long. How many of our kids you know, even if they were coming in as interns848
02:02:19.200 --> 02:02:25.230
Rosalind Norman: Even if they come in as inerns, they have to do a background, a
serious background check, okay, you gotta pass all that, number one.849
02:02:25.980 --> 02:02:31.740
Rosalind Norman: And so, how many of our kids are going to be able to want to
wait around,850
02:02:32.220 --> 02:02:35.070
Rosalind Norman: To go for that background check, so we have to prepare them
both ways.851
02:02:35.310 --> 02:02:48.000
Rosalind Norman: You know, but those are interested in really going ford, and
really want to work in NGA, that's fine, but I also want those who want to be able to go right away into working with some other ancilliary kinds of businesses,852
02:02:48.780 --> 02:03:05.970
Rosalind Norman: and, or, you know work with, you know, contractors or
subcontractors, if they have the skill sets, and cyber security, information technology or in artificial intelligence, understand machine learning, any 01:53:00manner of all things, drone technology, aviation, you see where I'm going with this?853
02:03:06.030 --> 02:03:06.630
Jim Gass: I do.
Rosalind Norman: Engineering,
854
02:03:07.140 --> 02:03:19.320
Rosalind Norman: Then they can be use that core to go from that technical
perspective to some of the jobs that will be more readily open to them, and if they still need to go to college, you know, they got855
02:03:19.800 --> 02:03:28.530
Rosalind Norman: what, here in St. Louis, St. Louis University, Washington
University, you know that they can also be prepared and move into because we do have a relationship,856
02:03:28.860 --> 02:03:35.280
Rosalind Norman: You know, with most of those, you know, universities, through
this project, so i'm just saying to you,857
02:03:35.700 --> 02:03:46.470
Rosalind Norman: I see it, bigger that NGA, okay I just see NGA, don't get me
wrong, you know it's- it's wonderful that they're going to build their West campus in North Saint-858
02:03:46.860 --> 02:03:54.240
Rosalind Norman: North St Louis, the city of North St. Louis which is closer to
where I grew up at, but at the same time i'm looking at859
02:03:55.140 --> 02:04:03.600
Rosalind Norman: something bigger, big in the sense that there will be so many
other opportunities related to that and I just want our kids to be prepared and 01:54:00be a part of that.860
02:04:04.170 --> 02:04:14.130
Rosalind Norman: Okay, as well as their parents, and you know the Community,
because obviously you can't do one without the other, you know you just I can't see doing one without the other, so it's a lot of work. I hope it's worth it anyway, that's all I can say.861
02:04:19.980 --> 02:04:21.180
Jim Gass: That's fantastic, I think.
862
02:04:22.230 --> 02:04:27.330
Jim Gass: That- that really answers all my questions, this is, I only wish that
we had spoken earlier in thi-863
02:04:27.840 --> 02:04:39.870
Jim Gass: Earlier in this project, just because that could have really help
determine the direction it's taken at but as it is, I think there's been this is very valuable and it fills in the gaps between the interviews that we have so far.864
02:04:41.250 --> 02:04:46.290
Jim Gass: Is there anything else you'd like to add, or can I do you have any
questions for me that I could answer?865
02:04:49.830 --> 02:04:53.760
Rosalind Norman: Yes, so here's that report I was telling you about, actually,
um, Dr Kelland should be able to give you a copy of her report, because this is one I sent to her, okay?866
02:04:54.630 --> 02:04:57.600
Jim Gass: Okay, I made a note of that. And I'll send that email in just a little bit.
867
02:04:58.320 --> 02:05:02.130
Rosalind Norman: Yeah that way that'll give you some more information about Jeff Vanderlou,
01:55:00868
02:05:03.150 --> 02:05:17.490
Rosalind Norman: The building of the new Vashon, and you're right, it comes from
within the Community and even when I had that contract with the Danforth Foundation, get ready for this, I had people living in Jeff Vanderlou community who had been trained to go out and do the, um,869
02:05:18.570 --> 02:05:23.820
Rosalind Norman: Community assessment, you know to to actually create this
inventory, okay,870
02:05:24.930 --> 02:05:30.480
Rosalind Norman: of their own community, just makes sense. Like you said from
within, working from within, you know.871
02:05:34.410 --> 02:05:37.350
Rosalind Norman: So for you, my question to you now is this:
872
02:05:39.690 --> 02:05:43.740
Rosalind Norman: So what have you learned from... i know I gave you a whole
bunch of information873
02:05:45.900 --> 02:05:48.090
Rosalind Norman: What I've shared with you, so far?
874
02:05:52.560 --> 02:05:59.850
Jim Gass: Well I guess, what this has really crystallized for me is the is the
reasoning behind this cycle of875
02:06:00.240 --> 02:06:09.570
Jim Gass: blighting, redevelopment, blighting again and redevelopment, that the
01:56:00city have go- that the various parts of the city have gone through over time, you know that that's something876
02:06:09.870 --> 02:06:18.960
Jim Gass: That we've discussed in, like I said, Dr Kelland's class last
semester, but this really puts it into perspective in terms of talking about the goals behind that,877
02:06:20.340 --> 02:06:28.950
Jim Gass: I think- because i'd never thought to think of the Jeff Vanderlou area
as a strategically- there's a strategic location878
02:06:29.580 --> 02:06:44.430
Jim Gass: For people that want to want to develop the city and this really puts
it in perspective in terms of what drives that cycle, so I think that's the most- that I think that's the biggest takeaway i've gotten from all this.879
02:06:49.080 --> 02:06:49.590
Rosalind Norman: Can I share one last screen before we go?
Jim Gass: Certainly.
880
02:06:55.980 --> 02:06:56.280
Rosalind Norman: There is, um...
881
02:07:11.130 --> 02:07:13.590
Rosalind Norman: There's, there's Less than two minutes, i'll look for it,
882
02:07:14.790 --> 02:07:15.510
Rosalind Norman: Maybe...
883
02:07:17.670 --> 02:07:22.800
Rosalind Norman: This is the direction I'm going, because this, this is a person
here, Andrew Dearing,884
02:07:23.340 --> 02:07:38.100
Rosalind Norman: he's a special advisor but he's driving with geofutures
initiative, which is part of "STL Made." This communication here, just today, back and forth, he said he will try to join us via zoom, on- on- on885
02:07:39.300 --> 02:07:51.840
Rosalind Norman: On Monday, okay So here we go, ok here it is, this is his email
from this morning, Okay, "thank you for sending the information" see, I wanna show you the slideshow Okay, these again, are major stakeholders,886
02:07:52.290 --> 02:08:07.710
Rosalind Norman: See this is Andy, I can, I can call him Andy, but he's the lead
Geofutures President, that is proud to be a part of STL Made, OK so again to the 01:57:00connections, context, Okay, so let me go down to, and find,887
02:08:10.800 --> 02:08:11.550
Rosalind Norman: this piece, that he's referring to,
888
02:08:17.670 --> 02:08:18.090
Rosalind Norman:
889
02:08:19.110 --> 02:08:21.600
Rosalind Norman: forwarded to me, so bear with me, do you see it?
890
02:08:22.530 --> 02:08:24.810
Jim Gass: Yes, it is loading right- there it is.
891
02:08:25.080 --> 02:08:26.010
Rosalind Norman: Okay, here we go.
892
02:08:30.060 --> 02:08:31.020
Rosalind Norman: It's a slide presentation so...
893
02:08:36.450 --> 02:08:37.890
Rosalind Norman: there's nobody in this reading.
Jim Gass:
Rosalind Norman: That's the new design for the campus.
894
02:10:25.170 --> 02:10:26.520
Rosalind Norman: You see the drone in the background there?
Jim Gass: I do, that's- that's a heck of an
895
02:10:27.540 --> 02:10:30.510
Jim Gass: Increase in just in just a few years.
896
02:10:32.640 --> 02:10:34.260
Rosalind Norman: Double digit growth was expected each year.
897
02:10:36.000 --> 02:10:42.510
Rosalind Norman: And that lady with the drone, she's a part of- she's one of our
collaborators, too. She has her own drone company. And she's Black, by the way, Black female.
Rosalind Norman: We only have a couple more slides. It's time
Jim Gass: GeoFutures is committed to equitable and inclusive regional growth through...
Rosalind Norman: Here we go,
898
02:11:43.980 --> 02:11:51.180
Rosalind Norman: that's what I want- make sure you see this slide, focusing on
Black tech and K to 12 tech education focusing on underrepresented communities.899
02:11:51.420 --> 02:11:51.720
Rosalind Norman: Okay.
900
02:11:53.070 --> 02:11:53.610
Rosalind Norman: And that's where we fit in, in community-led development.
901
02:11:54.810 --> 02:11:59.760
Rosalind Norman: See, we fit in this, Gateway GIS fits right here, on this part, okay?
902
02:12:19.980 --> 02:12:20.910
Rosalind Norman: We're down to just two more slides.
Jim Gass: Mm.
903
02:12:28.440 --> 02:12:36.510
Rosalind Norman: I was trying to let it do it on its own, but it takes a while
because I guess they wanted to be sure people knew, I can- I can accelerate it to-
904
02:12:59.700 --> 02:13:01.260
Rosalind Norman: Have you read this slide so I can go ahead and click this?
01:58:00Jim Gass: I have.
905
02:13:03.840 --> 02:13:07.950
Rosalind Norman: Expediting, I know it was taking a while, but
906
02:13:13.140 --> 02:13:17.580
Jim Gass: The future of geospatial is StL Made, nice.
Rosalind Norman: Okay, that's it!
907
02:13:19.110 --> 02:13:19.650
Rosalind Norman: So,
908
02:13:21.240 --> 02:13:24.330
Rosalind Norman: Okay, so um let me stop sharing.
909
02:13:25.470 --> 02:13:27.570
Rosalind Norman: So getting back to me now.
910
02:13:29.430 --> 02:13:29.850
Okay.
911
02:13:31.050 --> 02:13:40.830
Rosalind Norman: Okay, so does this help round out, you know, so you can see the
connection with Gateway GIS, with Jeff Vanderlou,912
02:13:42.300 --> 02:13:53.430
Rosalind Norman: And you know our relationship with, you know the building of
the New Vashon, Harris Stowe, Mill Creek Valley, because really if you think about it it is already connected,913
02:13:55.800 --> 02:14:07.680
Rosalind Norman: and your project, you know, so that's just my last question, so
now does this- will this-how does this really help you to maybe, a different 01:59:00perspective, based upon your other interviews?914
02:14:10.860 --> 02:14:25.320
Jim Gass: This provides the kind of macro view of the history of the
neighborhood that will kind of provide the framework for I would say the micro history of the individual experiences of our interviewees, you know? Um,915
02:14:26.400 --> 02:14:33.030
Jim Gass: Along with other historical material- mainly visual- that we're of
course going to put into the documentary, but- but yes that's what.916
02:14:33.750 --> 02:14:43.050
Jim Gass: that's what this conversation has really done as pulled it all
together. I'm going to email my partner and asked her to what to please watch our interview, just as soon as she gets the chance.917
02:14:43.560 --> 02:14:49.980
Jim Gass: we're on kind of a hiatus from editing today just be- for a couple
different reasons, but this will918
02:14:51.390 --> 02:15:07.350
Jim Gass: This, this has really tied it all together, I really want to thank
you, Dr. Roz, because this, this is the kind of historical discussion that really reminds me why I'm in the field in the first place, because it goes from 02:00:00the the level of919
02:15:08.370 --> 02:15:17.910
Jim Gass: Vashon High School, you know one school in a fairly large US city to
the way that development has shaped the city to the,920
02:15:18.450 --> 02:15:30.660
Jim Gass: To the regional context that that development is happening in, to- to
you know, the US and its use of like the most advanced geospatial technology.921
02:15:31.230 --> 02:15:48.000
Jim Gass: And as part of its national projects and that connection, that
through-line there is really the sort of thing like as a historian, you know, I aspire to pull out in my work, that- that- this whole, this whole topic, this would make a great, you know, academic or,922
02:15:49.350 --> 02:15:58.200
Jim Gass: A great speaking engagement, have you ever given talks, like on this
topic, you know, in a university setting or elsewhere?923
02:15:58.680 --> 02:16:01.560
Rosalind Norman: Well, I usually just, you know I mean,
02:01:00924
02:16:03.570 --> 02:16:10.320
Rosalind Norman:
925
02:16:12.240 --> 02:16:18.780
Rosalind Norman: If I could have gotten the new course, this would have been a
part of that new course at the Honors College. You know what i'm saying?926
02:16:19.050 --> 02:16:29.400
Jim Gass: I do.
Rosalind Norman: But talking with Lara, you know I call her Lara, just like my
students call me Dr. Roz, but, I'm serious,927
02:16:30.330 --> 02:16:41.010
Rosalind Norman: Just, I appreciate you, you know mentioning it, I just don't
know where it's going to go from here, I just pray and say Okay, you know, Gateway GIS, I'm serious, we getting ready to kick off,928
02:16:41.610 --> 02:16:59.220
Rosalind Norman: um, not only the unveiling of the first banner of the eight, on
Monday, then probably later on next week we'll be sending out a flyer for Gateway GIS, that is going to kick off, get ready for this, an all-girls official training program.929
02:17:00.660 --> 02:17:06.090
Rosalind Norman: And it's for the 9th, 10th, and 11th graders and we're opening
02:02:00up so,930
02:17:07.260 --> 02:17:10.620
Rosalind Norman: in fact, let me see, let me just share one last thing quickly,
931
02:17:14.820 --> 02:17:15.450
Jim Gass: Sure.
932
02:17:16.950 --> 02:17:24.570
Rosalind Norman: Here, here, here, here, if it's not here I can go here, and
just to quickly show, we are right in the process of finishing up.933
02:17:27.450 --> 02:17:30.930
Rosalind Norman: the, uh, flyer for it...
934
02:17:37.080 --> 02:17:40.530
Rosalind Norman: Here we go, here's the flyer.
935
02:17:41.550 --> 02:17:47.160
Rosalind Norman: I just want you to just, you know, see because we got to
encourage our females to get more involved.936
02:17:47.910 --> 02:17:48.330
Rosalind Norman: uh, in this.
Jim Gass: of course.
937
02:17:49.830 --> 02:17:50.160
Rosalind Norman: And,
938
02:17:51.450 --> 02:17:54.780
Rosalind Norman: it was designed by, you know, one of the people right here in
North St. Louis.939
02:17:56.100 --> 02:17:56.760
Rosalind Norman: What do you think?
940
02:17:57.450 --> 02:18:06.660
Jim Gass: I think it looks great, I think, the colors really pop, For one thing,
02:03:00I think it probably helps that the produce- can you scroll down a little bit lower?941
02:18:08.160 --> 02:18:08.580
Rosalind Norman: Yeah!
942
02:18:10.680 --> 02:18:11.280
Jim Gass: Miss- yeah.
943
02:18:11.940 --> 02:18:28.080
Jim Gass: that's what I was gonna say, that mi- mirchandani, that that will
hopefully be a pull for the students who would be interested in this, and this is a Career Academy High School and an East St Louis school district 189, nice, nice.944
02:18:28.500 --> 02:18:29.130
Jim Gass: Nice.
Rosalind Norman: And,
945
02:18:30.360 --> 02:18:32.340
Rosalind Norman: see the beauty of this, get ready for this,
946
02:18:33.540 --> 02:18:33.960
Rosalind Norman: SHe wrote them a grant!
947
02:18:35.760 --> 02:18:38.100
Rosalind Norman: Because she is a member of AI4ALL, right?
Jim Gass: Yes.
Rosalind Norman: and she got the grant!
948
02:18:39.180 --> 02:18:43.500
Rosalind Norman: She got the first one, so we can give you know, so we can do
this with the giveaway, okay?949
02:18:44.910 --> 02:18:49.890
Rosalind Norman: And you see right here, it's free of charge. That's what
Gateway GIS is all about, you saw our logo at the top right?950
02:18:51.300 --> 02:18:53.160
Jim Gass: Yes.
Rosalind Norman: And she came up and tied in Operation Girl in AI, right?
951
02:18:54.480 --> 02:18:58.170
Rosalind Norman: Her father, now to show you how deep this is, you saw the logo right?
952
02:18:58.440 --> 02:19:11.010
Rosalind Norman: For the different ones? You see UM St. Louis, isn't that right?
02:04:00Because, why. It's her father, Dr Dinesh Mirchandani, with the department chair, for information systems and technology, right.953
02:19:11.700 --> 02:19:13.980
Rosalind Norman: who brought it to Gateway GIS over a year ago.
954
02:19:14.580 --> 02:19:20.820
Rosalind Norman: And with COVID we had to sort of shift some things around, and
you know, revisit the timeline,955
02:19:21.060 --> 02:19:33.420
Rosalind Norman: And then recently, because I was trying to get the website
redesigned, his daughter volunteered to work on, you know, because we got other young people and all kinds of volunteers working on a website over the last- now almost two years.956
02:19:34.080 --> 02:19:50.610
Rosalind Norman: since we started. But she's been working on that recently and
she said, you know what, why don't I just- that's how it happened, you know, literally her father, and you know, and you know, he said Roz, my daughter, I'm serious now you see how involved, UM St. Louis is on these different levels?957
02:19:51.720 --> 02:19:56.130
Rosalind Norman: So it's a family affair with artificial intelligence. But look
at this, I am-958
02:19:56.340 --> 02:19:58.890
Rosalind Norman: this should go out this week, we just waiting for
959
02:19:58.980 --> 02:20:02.100
Rosalind Norman: Ria to get the link because she's working on registration form,
02:05:00960
02:20:03.210 --> 02:20:12.780
Rosalind Norman: And you can see it's free, they talking about females, nine and
grade nine to eleven, bi-state because why. We're working in partnership with East St Louis as well as with Clyde.961
02:20:13.500 --> 02:20:21.360
Rosalind Norman: Now we will open it up, you know, so that you know other
females students throughout, you know what i'm saying, this is what I mean by growing, okay,962
02:20:21.660 --> 02:20:22.710
Rosalind Norman: And we are. That means we are fulfilling
963
02:20:23.610 --> 02:20:40.320
Rosalind Norman: Our mission, of what. Bridging the digital, the geographic, the
cultural, racial, and economic divide. We're really, that's what i'm saying, I don't want to be talking about this, I want to be doing. I want to make that happen, so I just wanted to show that to you okay.964
02:20:41.430 --> 02:20:51.990
Jim Gass: Thank you, thank you for sharing that, I can appreciate taking a
regional approach like that, and including East St Louis. I grew up in St Clair county in uh, in O'fallon so it-965
02:20:53.160 --> 02:20:55.830
Jim Gass: The- there'sm you know, the sense there that most of-
966
02:20:56.070 --> 02:21:07.140
Jim Gass: That Illinois's, you know, center of gravity is Chicago so that you
know the counties down at the other end of the state, you know largely kind of 02:06:00fall outside of that, so you know we're very lucky to have like the Bi-state967
02:21:07.530 --> 02:21:15.330
Jim Gass: Development Corporation and other groups that extend opportunities
through the city, like throughout the metro area, including over to the Illinois side.968
02:21:20.100 --> 02:21:23.340
Rosalind Norman: sounds like you are, you said your major was what, history?
969
02:21:24.000 --> 02:21:36.090
Jim Gass: Public history and museum studies, Dr Kelland's program. She- I was
originally going to get the graduate certificate, that's what I was originally applying for, but Dr Kelland reached out and said i'd be a better fit for the MA Program.970
02:21:36.390 --> 02:21:40.950
Jim Gass: and that they could hook me up with an internship and you know
everything, everything else you need in Grad school.971
02:21:41.430 --> 02:21:51.900
Jim Gass: And it's- i'm glad I took her up on that offer, because it's been-
it's a lot- it's a lot better than what I was doing before, so I'm- I've been very lucky to be part of all this. 02:07:00972
02:21:55.980 --> 02:21:57.930
Rosalind Norman: And you said you grew up in St. Clair so did you go to a public
school, private or what?973
02:21:58.020 --> 02:22:05.400
Rosalind Norman: I'm just curious.
Jim Gass: O'fallon Township High School before- before that it was a private
school, St Clare Catholic elementary school.974
02:22:06.660 --> 02:22:09.090
Jim Gass: But yeah O'fallon's more so, in I
975
02:22:10.230 --> 02:22:18.120
Jim Gass: guess, the north central part of St Clair county? yeah that's about
right, North central part of St Clair county.976
02:22:20.550 --> 02:22:29.910
Jim Gass: Um, formerly, a pretty small farming town, you know, then it kind of
boomed because Scott air force bases right there, that's where both my parents grew up and where I was born and raised.977
02:22:32.790 --> 02:22:33.690
Rosalind Norman: Okay, okay, okay, so that means you're not really that far from
SIUE either?978
02:22:36.960 --> 02:22:47.040
Jim Gass: Not really no, in fact my, my roommate went there for a while. I
graduated from Illinois State which is about two and a half hours, well about three hours north of St Louis.979
02:22:48.000 --> 02:22:57.900
Jim Gass: That- that- that's where I first developed that sense that Chicago is
more so the gravitational center of Illinois just because I was the only kid from the St Louis metro area.980
02:22:58.350 --> 02:23:13.950
Jim Gass: there, and everybody else was from somewhere in Chicagoland and so
02:08:00that was kind of- that was you know kind of eye-opening, but then I did a couple years with Americorps and then I just moved back here in 2019 but with plans to start grad school.981
02:23:16.650 --> 02:23:21.480
Rosalind Norman: Okay, Well, thank you for considering me, and including me in your,
982
02:23:22.770 --> 02:23:41.580
Rosalind Norman: Your work and I love your suggestion, if you can you know,
think of our schedules, are you and Dr Kelland and anybody else and you all will figure out a way for me to do anymore, at UM St. Louis because I had taught there, I taught there just the semester, let me see, when Black Panther came out.983
02:23:41.940 --> 02:23:43.410
Rosalind Norman: I did a whole course for the
984
02:23:43.410 --> 02:23:47.610
Rosalind Norman: honors College on Black Panther okay, in fact...
985
02:23:48.960 --> 02:23:55.740
Rosalind Norman: It was wonderful, it was a beautiful experience, and honors
college courses, honors college represents a little bit everybody right?986
02:23:57.330 --> 02:24:00.870
Rosalind Norman: But i'm thinking just so you know,
02:09:00987
02:24:03.090 --> 02:24:03.330
Rosalind Norman: um, yeah it was a, I'm trying to think what did I call that
course? I'm trying to remember what did I call it, my goodness,988
02:24:09.390 --> 02:24:10.200
Rosalind Norman: Because it seems like it's been forever, since Black Panther,
they getting ready for what,989
02:24:13.140 --> 02:24:13.710
Rosalind Norman: Black Panther 2 now
990
02:24:16.320 --> 02:24:26.160
Jim Gass: It doesn't feel like that long ago that it came out, but that was-
that was before i'd even left Illinois, like I remember seeing it my last weekend in town, so that- so that would have been early 2018.991
02:24:27.600 --> 02:24:28.110
Rosalind Norman: Yeah, yeah
992
02:24:29.490 --> 02:24:33.780
Jim Gass: Three years ago, wow.
Rosalind Norman: So i'm just saying, I would love to, just let me know. But you
can tell, just993
02:24:37.980 --> 02:24:48.870
Rosalind Norman: doing what i've been doing with young people and marginalized
communities for more than 40 years and so i'm retired, and you know-you know i'm just, i'm just blessed, I994
02:24:49.290 --> 02:25:00.360
Rosalind Norman: manage what I have, you know, if I could do like you're saying,
you know, I would love to just make sure that we're not forgotten, you know, I just, I just want to see you know.995
02:25:01.620 --> 02:25:06.180
Rosalind Norman: People of color in our marginalized communities, you know, not
02:10:00forgotten, you know I just,996
02:25:06.210 --> 02:25:09.420
Rosalind Norman: I want to see us included because there's a lot of untapped talent
997
02:25:09.750 --> 02:25:12.990
Rosalind Norman: That we're not even dealing with when we're pushed aside.
998
02:25:16.560 --> 02:25:20.580
Rosalind Norman: Okay, well.
Jim Gass: Well, it sounds like they're very lucky to have you so, thank you,
thank you again for being part of this.999
02:25:21.660 --> 02:25:23.550
Rosalind Norman: Thank you, you have a good one okay?
1000
02:25:24.510 --> 02:25:26.070
Jim Gass: You as well. I'll be in touch.
1001
02:25:27.180 --> 02:25:27.660
Rosalind Norman: OK, thanks, bye-bye.
